In 1975, Locomotive #6, a 3ft. narrow gauge Baldwin, outside frame, Consolidation went out to the Pine Creek Railroad at Allaire State Park in New Jersey. Their intentions to restore and run it on their excursion railroad were noble but the reality of such an undertaking was more than could be accomplished. It sat for 34 years. After extensive negotiations and excellent cooperation of all parties involved, #6 is heading back to its home at the Quincy Mine in the Copper Country of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The cab and stack have been removed to lower the overall height and it will be loaded on a low boy trailer on Monday, June 15th. In order to keep from having to obtain additional permits in Indiana and Illinois, the plan is to cross Lake Michigan on the former C&O car ferry, the SS Badger, from Ludington to Manitowoc. A section of track has been laid in front of the Q&TLRR Enginhouse for the locomotive where restoration/preservation work can begin.
Thanks for that information. I had heard that #6 was being returned. What exactly is the plan for #6 when it is returned to Quincy location? What is planned for the snowplow that went to Pine Creek with #6?
The Quincy Mine Hoist association intends to do a cosmetic restoration of #6 such as a new cab and paintjob. There has been a slight glitch on scheduling the move, however, and it is being postponed until mid-July now. The tender will follow on another load which may or may not include the Russel plow. It is basically wood mulch now.
Quincymine,
I saw the snow plow leave Hancock in 1975, and I saw the recent photographs showing it as a pile of iron parts due to the nearly complete decomposition of the wood. Since this plow was a highly historic piece, who is responsible for not stipluating that the plow be stored under cover in NJ?
The plow could be restored. All it would require is the woodwork and the detailed knoweldge of the assembly. While it may be more or less just a pile of iron right now, there is still much valuable information of how it was assembled embodied in that pile. Once the pile is picked up and moved, there will be a greater loss of resource in the form of lost assembly knowledge than what was was lost in the form of wood decay.
I suggest giving some deep thought to this before scooping up that iron from the plow. Once you do that, the plow will be gone. As bad as it looks now, it is quite restorable.
I am sure that the Quincy Mine Hoist Association would be willing to entertain thoughts of allowing the ownership of the Russel Plow to go to a serious restorer. I am equally sure that the Pine Creek Railroad would like to see it gone from their premises. This would be an excellent project for a student of railroad history and industrial archaeolgy and one outside the limited finances of the Hoist Association.
I agree that it would be an excellent project. Being that the plow is of composite construction, the physical part of the restoration would be pretty straightforward with the production of new wood components. If I recall, that plow was built at a relatively late date, so the iron and steel components might be quite sound, so they could be used without rework or repair.
However, the restoration would have one very formidable component. That would be the amassing of knowledge of how all the pieces go together. For as bad as the present deterioration is, I suspect that there is still a lot of assembly information embedded in the debris. While the plow has fallen apart, there are still many wood parts existing, and a lot of them are still attached to adjoining parts of both wood and iron. And a lot of the detached parts are still in close enough proximity to the parts they were attached to that is can be surmised as to how they wen
So much has changed since my first posting. It looks like locomotive #6 will finally be loaded this Monday (7/20/09) but they had some permit issues with the state of Ohio so they won’t be going up through the lower peninsula and across on the ferry to Manitowoc, but up through Indiana, Illinois,and Wisconsin. It should be arriving back home on Thursday or Friday.
Quincymine;
While searching for some other info on the net, I found a NOTATION on the following web site link:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/lists/1959.shtml
That was the first heading under the State of Michigan listing a locomotive (?) of build dated to 1873.
It listed the city as AHMEEL of a mason bogie type loco, noted as stored. Hecla &Torch Lake. “Torch Lake”
It is in a list compiled in 1959 of locomotives on various types of display around this Country, as well as some in Canada.
Can you shed any light on this? The link to the list is displayed above.
Calumet and Hecla Mining Company #3 - “Torch Lake”, an 0-6-4, is under steam at Greenfield Village in Michigan. Not sure it’s the same locomotive.
The Mason Bogie “Torch Lake” was indeed the Calumet & Hecla’s locomotive. It was re-gauged by the Ford people.
To respond to an earlier question about the city of Ahmeel…it should have been Ahmeek, a mining location further up the Keweenaw, where the C&H had an engine house, and this is where the Torch Lake was kept, sheltered after it’s last use by a contractor in the contruction of the Brockway Mountain roadway ( even further up the Keweenaw ).
To respond to the statement that the Ford people re-gauged the Torch Lake, this is un-true. The Torch Lake was built ( 1873 ) intially to a 4’1" gauge and remained as such thru it’s first years of operation. In 1887 it and two others were severely damaged in a roundhouse fire. They sat inoperable until 1909 or 1910 when it, the Red Jacket and the Raymbault were basically reconstructed by the C&H forces, and were standard gauged at that time.
Who actually owned the Q&TL locomotives when they were removed from the roundhouse in 1975? Were they still owned by the Quincy Mining Company or did the Quincy Mine Hoist Association obtain them? I am curious as to why only # 1 and # 5 were kept for display.
If you have or can get a copy of Old Reliable you can read in some detail the structure of the ownership of the QMC. Basically, ownership and executive management were based out of the East coast, I’m not sure of the connection between them and the park where the locomotives went, but it was a descendant of the last ownership who was instrumental in the return of # 6 to it’s original home. Size & condition ( back in 1975 ) were determining factors why #6 went and the others did not. I don’t think the QMHA had been formed at that time. A frame and boiler from another Quincy locomotive remain in Flint at the Huckleberry RR.
My understanding was that Quincy Mining Co., President Todd had some interest or friendship with the Pine Creek Railroad in New Jersey, and that led to the agreement to lease #6 to them. As I understand it, the Pine Creek parties had also intended to lease the disassembled #3 and the new boiler that had been bought for #4, but declined at the last minute because it was discovered that the boiler would not fit #3 without considerable modifications to its frame.
Back in the 1960s, Quincy Mining was besieged with requests from all over the country by people asking to purchase the Q&TL locomotives. However, the company refused to consider the sale of any of the Q&TL plant because they held out hope that mining would recover, and the railroad would be put back to work.
At that time, the Q&TL seemed to me like a jewel for restoration and operation as a steam powered scenic railroad. However, I came to realize that nearly every little detail of the locomotives, track, and rolling stock was
Thank you for the explanations regarding the reasons for sending some of the Q&TL locomotives to other museums. I have read quite a bit about them but I do not recall reading about why they were sold/leased to others. I understand that the Q&TL, out of service in 1945, was more or less intact until the early seventies, so I can understand why there was so much interest in the railroad and equipment.
Why, exactly, did the Quincy Co. let go it’s engines ? Consider the following…
With the the renewed interest in steam across the country in the 1960’s and 1970’s, many organizations were actively seeking out and resurrecting the remaining locomotives scattered about. Witness the Southern Railway steam program, Mid Continent, and IRM to name but three. With the Q&TL locomotives “just sitting” you can see why they were targets for other groups to covet, especially so by those with narrow gauge interests. That # 6 went east is due, likely, to the connection previously cited between the Quincy management and the New Jersey group.
Why wasn’t the existing Q&TL trackage used as a basis for a tourist railroad ? As mentioned by Bucyrus, they the whole infrastructure of the Quincy rail operation was worn out. Bad times in the ‘30’s followed by hard usage during WWII meant little maintenance…so add to that the 30 years of sitting derelict, and by the 1970’s the stuff was almost beyond use. To restore a steam locomotive is an expensive proposition. To restore one that is completely worn out is extraordinarily expensive. The fact that # 6 wasn’t restored to operation, and the one sent to the Huckleberry in Flint suffering the same fate should attest to that. Then throw in another pair of huge costs, that of operation and that of maintenance. Any steam-based operation is a helluva lot of money, it’s a cost that most organizations simply can not afford, witness that Clint Jones’ Keweenaw Central was in the same area at about this time, and that it went under after just a few years operation. My understanding is that he lost the rail connection he needed, ( an infrastructure cost ) and the firebox in the # 29 was in dire need of repair ( a maintenance cost ). In order for a tourist oriented operation, even one that operate
There is a small narrow gauge operation near the Quincy, at Lake Linden. Tourism in the area is getting some national attention, so it might pick up. Hopefully someday part of the QT&L can be restored to operation.
Yup, a small operating section would be very, very nice. As mentioned earlier, the QMHA and their partners in the NPS seem to have focus and have the ability to garner funding; the round house is stabilized and has a new roof, and new doors, work is being done on the floor and inspection pits. The #6 which is still outside ( or was as of early October this year ) has been recently slathered in damp-proof primer to retard corrosion. I saw a small clipping in one of the store-fronts in Houghton regarding someone ( local I assume ) possibly reconstructing a rock-car…I didn’t inquire for details, but hopefully he continues and makes use of the parts available before the remains of the existing cars are so far gone as to make it impossible to reproduce one.
The financial aspect of operation of steam is daunting, but perhaps the group could model themselves after the Friends of EBT and have one or two weekends annually given to steam-up, certainly more do-able than trying to run on a regularl basis. I looked over the other two Q&TL locomotives in October, and oh, soooo tired they are. And not just from sitting in the open since 1946…they were literally on their last legs when the fires were dropped for the final time. Evidence of pad-welding on the firebox wrapper, tires worn hollow, frames broken and re-re-welded…tired, tired and more tired. Anything is restorable, it just depends on how deep your check-book is and as importantly, whom you hire to do the work.
Yes it is amazing that those Q&TL locomotives on display at the hoist were in operation while being so worn out. Quincy seemed to have put a lot of faith in arc welding. If nobody captures the details, the rolling stock becomes lost history once the wood disintegrates. Sure, the wood is relatively cheap, so it can be replaced. And even if not totally gone, it will need complete replacement in any rebuild. However, once it is gone, if nobody captured the design details, there will be no possibility of replicating the wood parts and putting the car back together. Any attempt is likely to turn out to be a Home Depot Special.
The best candidates for Q&TL rolling stock restoration would be either or both of the two basic types of rock car. The plans and kit for the Hartford Products Z-braced car captures nearly all of the details of that car design. The railroad museum in Duluth has one of the other types of Q&TL cars (with side stakes) in fairly complete condition that could be used as a reference. The few cars that were recently pulled out of the No. 2
There is indeed a small narrow gauge operation at Lake Linden. Several years ago my wife and I happened to stop by on their first day of operation and were pleasantly surprised to see a gorgeous little two foot gauge 0-4-0 saddle tanker under steam. This little gem had worked one of the area mines (Calumet and Hecla) and was restored with help from the Michigan Tech mech. eng. society.
They have an oval of track about 1/4 mile in length and use the old Lake Linden depot as a headquarters. The depot also houses a small museum and model RR display. It may also be of interest that the rolling stock used for the operation came from the defunct Badger Ammunition plant including two of the diminutive diesels. These resemble the small locos that you sometimes see in mine use.
Pat. (check out the link below)