im building a layout of my own but i’v got a question.
what’s the smalest radius we can use without causing any problems
thanks
A very innocent question with sinsister consequences! Basically the answer (first) is as big as you can possibly make it. Now the reasons. 18" is the smallest practical and will limit what you can do severely. Large road engines and 85’ passenger cars will have tracking problems. Forty foot box cars and four wheel truck engines or steam switchers will be all you can easily run. Bump that to 22" and you might still have problems with the bigger equipement although much fewer. Want realistic operation and looks that will allow virtually anything to run with little or no problems consider 30" radius or larger. My Pennsylvania railroad corridor layout being built as we speak will have 48" minimum and most of the time even bigger. For the first time space isn’t a consideration and I have asked multiple times in multiple forums if anyone ever regretted building a layout with curves that big or biger. Everyone who has repsonded said absolutely not without one dissenting vote. Now I suspect from your message you are fairly young and a 4’ x 8’ may be all you can muster at this point but do not be discouraged use 22" when you can and you won’t regret it.
Smallest radius without problems? Depends on what you can accept, and what kind of thing you are modelling.
A streetcar will take sharper curves than a streamlined passenger car.
The actual dimensions of the radius depend on the scale you are using. I think Atlas makes a sectional 9" radius track for N. Z scale can have a layout in a briefcase.
There are some techniques to handle the transition from straight track to a curve in a way that hides some of the ugliness of the sharp change. Take a look at Track Planning for Realistic Operation, it has tables in it for radii for different scales and types of curves (narrow, conventional, broad).
Good luck!
y2snow,
You did not mention the scale you were using and the first answer assumed HO. So much depends on the scale, what type of rolling stock you intend to run, the locale you intend to model, and your personal preferences. Overall, “the larger the better” is the preferred response, but may be inappropriate for your particular situation. The other specific suggestions above are excellent.
Mark C.
sorry mark C,
its HO scale, does it show that i’m a beginer lol, for the space for now is realy short i have something like 3 foot by 24 foot. But the problem is that i want to do at least one rail go all around the table see my problem ? For a radius of 21" don’t have the space for it
3 X 24… now thats something, sounds like you could make a pretty spectacular switching layout there. now, about a line running all the way around, have you considered a point to point style layout. its true you cant just let it run and maybe youre not quite ready for a lot of operations… another important question though. whats your era ( the time frame you are modeling)
Also being a newbie i wanted to ask the same question. I’ve yet to see a solid answer. If the width is 3 feet that is 36 inches would that be enough for HO scale? 30 inch radius will work correct?
Also what would be the best track brand to purchase and do you purchase them piece by piece or is there a kit complete set available?
brian, its a common mistake your making, radius is HALF the distance across the turn, so 3 feet would be and 18 inch radius so no and as for your second question, you can buy track piece by piece from various manufactureres, but you will get better operation by using flex-track, it comes in 3 foot pieces and you bend it to the size turn you want, it can also be used for straights. if you plan on using this invest a few bucks in a good pair of rail cutters so you can cut the 3 foot length to the size you need
i’m looking for the old scenery like steam machine, old cars and old house
ok thanks, now the flex track is there a special tool that one need to purchase to make the curves? Can you give me some good online hobby shop since i will be ordering all. I am in Curacao there is no local hobby shop here. Would you recommend buying used track from other modelers?
the only tool is maybe a large compass to draw out the radius before you bend it, that way you get a smooth curve, but you can just bend it easily in your hands. a good place to order track and roadbed in bulk is www.standardhobby.com the only problem here is you must order a lot at a time. If you dont need so much look on www.discounttrainsonline.com
there are plenty of other sites too, there are also ads in the model railroader magazines
buying old track is sometimes a good idea, sometimes not, if you can get a lot in good shape then go for it, but try to stay with nickel silver track because it stays cleaner longer than brass or steel
y2snow: As mentioned above, much depends on what sort of equipment you want to run. Large steam will simply not run well on very tight curves–but if you want to run very small steam (like an 0-4-0 switcher) then 3 feet is enough space for a 15" radius loop of track. That 24’ length is nothing to sneeze at–lots of room for scenery or switching in a fairly straight line!
A 15" radius loop at each end will limit your operation to short cars (40-50 foot freight cars or “shorty” passenger cars) and smaller steam (the aforementioned 0-4-0, maybe a 4-6-0 at absolute maximum), at least for what you’d like to go around the loop. Since you’d have more than 20 feet of track that’s NOT a 15" radius curve, you could operate whatever you wanted in the middle of the layout–it’d just derail going around the loop if it was too long!
Heck, that might create some interesting operation problems…the big road engine needs help from the dinky switcher to retrieve cars for the Red Ball Freight from industries located around “Deadman’s Curve”!
y2snow,
If your benchwork is 36" wide, you still can’t get an 18" radius on it because that’s the centerline of the curve. Your equipment will overhang the outside rail on the curve anyway. Would it be possible to attach a small extension to the front of the ends of the benchwork so that you could support the track for an 18" radius curve? It wouldn’t take up too much additional space (maybe 6" by 24") and would make all the difference in the world. Old-time steam is pretty small and would not be a problem on 18" radius curves. I’d use snaptrack for this application.
Good Luck!
Mark C.
Thanks guys,
ok i’m trying to make it up 6’ by 24’ i’ll try to move some stuff and maybe i can get it or maybe more then 6’. So for being safe i souldn’t go for less then 22" radius, right
Welcome to problem #2. if you make it 6’ wide you better have arms like an Orangatan because you won’t be able to reach the center (was that a groan I just heard[:)])? a couple of things to consider doing:
- Make the ends 48-72" so you can use a larger radius and keep the center 3’ wide so you can reach into it when you need to.
- Make the railroad 30-36" wide around the walls of the room and stand in the center
- Makethe railroad point to point by not putting a loop on one end and run back and forth switching cars with a loop at one end.
With 24’ of length that is a pretty healthy size in that direction. You might want to consider hiding the loops under a city or mountain. You certainly have enough horizontal distance to have a whole switching area above the lower level over one or both loops. You could then make the focal point of the railroad a crossing in which the basic layout is a figure eight with interchange tracks between the two lines. It would be a case of dropping off cars for interchange on one side of the lap and picking them up on the other. two tracks would add variety in that regard as the cars dropped today are picked up tomorrow. You could basically have a road cab that could be operated from the center of the layout at the crossing and two or more switching cabs for walk around control.
Just a couple of ideas off the top of my head.
i used to have a layout i couldnt reach across, what i did was to cut a hole in the layout inside the curve big enough to stand up inside. You have to figure out a way to put the piece of layout back in place when you dont need to climb through it, that way, if something derails and you cant reach it. Just lift out a piece of the layout, crawl underneath, pop up and retrieve it. Of course ideally, nothing should be derailing at all.
It looks like we are fightin’ the alligators when we went in to help drain the swamp. I don’t understand the huge change in dimensions mentioned: 3’ x 24’, then 6’ x 24’. In my opinion, 3’ x 24’ would be wonderful, but the last 36" at each end would have to have a 6" by 24" extension to allow the trains to turn on 18" radius curves and have a little bit of clearance all around. You could do all kinds of railroading in the 18’ - 20’ between the turns at the end. Am I missing something?
Mark C.
I think there is some thematic disparity between the “sharp curves are all right” crowd and the “curve radii less than 22 inches simply do not exist” crowd.
Indeed, what might work best, if you have the room, is a “dog-bone” layout, with curves as wide as you can manage at each end and a nice long skinny section in the middle, maybe two feet deep, for good access, as mentioned above.
y2snow: Much depends on exactly what kind of railroading you hope to model. You mentioned steam–but do you want to model gigantic articulateds pulling heavy freight, or little geared logging locomotives? Your requirements in terms of curve radii and space depend very much on what sort of layout you want to build.
Hello y2snow, as Marc C. said “am I missing something?” When you have determined exactly what the maximum deminsions of your pike will be; it would be well to resubmit that data on another Forum entry. Until then, there isn’t much anyone can suggest in a definitive manner. Probably the last thing you want to hear is the possibility of running a traction road (over-head wire) with multiple unit interurban service combined with steam powerd (2-6-0 maximum) way freight operations. If you must adhere to the lesser deminsions [3’ X 24’ ], this mix of traction and light steam will afford you variety and challenges that will never bore you. If, on the other hand, you prefer a “roundy-roundy,” i.e. dog bone, inverted 8, etc., plus using heavier steam, then the second option of 6’ X 24’ is a must. In the long run, I think you will find “point-to-point” will offer the greatest opportunities for prototype operations and continued entusiasm for the hobby. Just another humble thought to add to the excellent suggestions previously mentioned. Good luck