In another post, our forum members shared some idea about the Mack FCD Rail Bus and other railbuses used in different railroads and different countries. I would like to open a new thread and moving some content to here for the record.
Mack FCD Rail Bus:
[quote user=“Overmod”]
Jones1945
I once suspect such idea was inspired by the Aerotrain of GM. But at least the Aerotrain was constructed by new material not used buses.
There was a very important difference between the ‘American’ Leyland bus and the Aerotrain: the suspension. The Aerotrain as first built had truly pathetic primary suspension and compliance, with the idea – it worked pretty well on over-the-road GM coaches – of secondary air-bag suspension (promising good isolation, an absence of spring
Here is an example of what I think the FCDs were intended to supplant:
There were relatively many of these ‘bus conversion’ railcars over the years; you can find many of them in Ed Keilty’s books. Some were quite sophisticated replacements for older interurban cars, but none of them long survived the great falling-off of interest in ‘rail interurban’ service.
The Motorailer (and the Budd RDC, in a different sense) are a different paradigm: full-size, full-featured lightweight trains following up the original motor-train developments of the early 1930s as opposed to the high-speed train ‘streamliners’; think of them as the logical application of industrial design to EMC-style doodlebugs to make them more attractive conveyances. Note how hard Budd fought to keep railroads from pulling trailers with the original RDCs, even though it would have been comparatively simple to rig the transmissions for ‘towing’ even with friction lockup for high.
One of the unremarked reasons for the precipitate decline of interurbans might have been Roosevelt’s push for rural electrification in the early New Deal years. Very little about interurbans made sense if the overhead wiring was not extensively subsidized by companies deriving benefit from it – for example, utility companies. Once wire installation, maintenance and energization became ‘sunk’ expense items, much of the charm of operating electrics vs. motor trains disappeared. I think one of the major ‘proofs’ that interurbans died of their own faults rather than some NCL-like conspiracy is precisely that internal-combustion alternatives did not catch on, even with the model of the Dan Patch Line as a very early and relatively technologically crude example.
I’m still trying to figure out why GM couldn’t figure out how to jigger the Aerotrain suspension to give reas
Here is an example of what I think the FCDs were intended to supplant:
There were relatively many of these ‘bus conversion’ railcars over the years; you can find many of them in Ed Keilty’s books. Some were quite sophisticated replacements for older interurban cars, but none of them long survived the great falling-off of interest in ‘rail interurban’ service.
The Motorailer (and the Budd RDC, in a different sense) are a different paradigm: full-size, full-featured lightweight trains following up the original motor-train developments of the early 1930s as opposed to the high-speed train ‘streamliners’; think of them as the logical application of industrial design to EMC-style doodlebugs to make them more attractive conveyances. Note how hard Budd fought to keep railroads from pulling trailers with the original RDCs, even though it would have been comparatively simple to rig the transmissions for ‘towing’ even with friction lockup for high.
One of the unremarked reasons for the precipitate decline of interurbans might have been Roosevelt’s push for rural electrification in the early New Deal years. Very little about interurbans made sense if the overhead wiring was not extensively subsidized by companies deriving benefit from it – for example, utility companies. Once wire installation, maintenance and energization became ‘sunk’ expense items, much of the charm of operating electrics vs. motor trains disappeared. I think one of the major ‘proofs’ that interurbans died of their own faults rather than some NCL-like conspiracy is precisely that internal-combustion alternatives did not catch on, even with the model of the Dan Patch Line as a very early and relatively technologically crude example.
Example of a somewhat later MoPac railbus than the Eagle of the Rails: Beaumont, Sour Lake & Western, cutting-edge modern in 1948, ran until the 1960s. (Company formally merged into Missouri Pacific in March 1956)
Thank you for the info, Overmod. I think using diesel motor car or larger size motor train like the ACF Motorailer; which was a very successful example when used by Missouri Pacific, to replace steam or electric interurban vehicle would be an economic solution to further decrease the operation cost for routes (including commuter services) which had lower demand, since the management could get rid of all dated electric infrastructure in phases without discontinuing of services. Imagine the maintenance cost of running a 30 km electric railway system with only a few “streetcars” running on it. I didn’t know that many interurban systems were owned by electric companies and detailed background history behind them… it sounds more complicated than I imagine.
I’m still trying to figure out why GM couldn’t figure out how to jigger the Aerotrain suspension to give reasonable ride and accommodation of curve roll. For some reason, alth
Thank you very much, Ed. It is interesting to know that they had such a funny nickname. Local RRs probably never had the resources and sense to make their fleet looks better, especially when the US was still recovering from the Great Depression.
1937 - Central Argentine Railway - single & double railcars (Top speed: 68mph)
Yes, Its was a Streamliner which was as large as the UP M10000, if the definition of a Streamliner was a streamlined train serving between big cities, I shouldn’t call The Rebel a motorcar. But at the same time, the size of it was just dozens of feet longer than the two-car ACF Motorailer. So I would like to put the article here for readers’ convenience.
I just realized (after reading this post: http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/742/p/272814/3104379.aspx#3104379 ) that an interurban must be powered by electricity, so if my fantasy of dieselized an interurban with motorcar or railbuses, it no longer could be called an interurban. Could fancy motor car like
ACL Motorailer, the streamlined motor car designed for commuter services. Underrated!
Before the ACF Motorailer, The Rebel of the The Gulf, Mobile and Northern Railroad. Probably the slowest Streamliner in terms of average speed. A product of racial segregation policy of the US in 1930s.
I find I am still requried to log in. Until the people maintaining the server learn how to spell correctly, I have to wonder if it’s actually the Government serving the files… I don’t remember this access convention or the misspelling before the ‘defunding’.
It was an ICC investigation report of an accident involved a motor car near Painesville, Ohio in 1927. Does that mean Motor Cars were seen as a dangerous vehicle which could easy get involved in traffic accidents and get people killed in the States? I remember the demise of ACF Motorailer was also directly or indirectly caused by a traffic accident which resulted in the death of the engineer.
All of these things just scream “I’m a bus”. They all look like junk to me, especially the streamlined ones. Budds RDC’s were pretty zippy and relatively rattle free and at least acted like it was railroad equipment. Not very sexy looking though, utilitarian appearance ( exception: the NYC Jet powered one time whatever the heck that was for thingie).
I’ll take a light Pacific, Jubilee or Mogul and 2 or 3 heavyweights any day over any of it.
Soo local in northern Minnesota
Pacific 2702 clatters across the Northern Pacific tracks at McGregor, Minn., 81 miles west of Duluth, with Soo Line’s Thief River Falls–Duluth train 64 in September 1954.
Philip R. Hastings photo
Suspect that is one reason for the fall-off in their popularity after the ‘age of EMC cars’ in the '20s. See also the Redondo Beach accident with RDCs, which soured ATSF on their great high-speed rail-diesel-car future almost before it began. Few people like riding in a 100mph … or 55mph … beer can with their heads close to contact level, let alone doing it with several hundred gallons of gasoline or distillate in close proximity to hot manifolds.
I’m not sure I’d attribute the entire ‘death’ of the Motorailer itself to the Land O Corn beer-truck collision. IC itself wanted to replace the train ‘in kind’ but as I recall WPB requirements did not allow it; postwar the usual increase in successful traffic led to that train being kept with full-size equipment. MoPac famously not only kept their ‘Eaglette’ in service through the early Fifties but resurrected it once in its original service and then stuck it on Delta Eagle service later.
The things were too light for the kinds of line they would be used for, and the relatively low horsepower didn’t help them. The better solution was the same thing that confronted doodlebugs en masse in the postwar years: cars and buses did any real job they could fulfil and do it better.
Except good safe secondary roads were not all yet in place, certainly not reliable to numerous rural areas especially in winter. Salting, sanding and snowplowing techniques took a while to be emplaced and used on many rural roads. Gas stations could be far in between and not always open. Main roads and highways were generally ok but a good winter storm could knock them out quite easily back then. Not sure but I would say that things were good and reliable by the early 60’s for the most part.
Yeah very unfortunate with the Sante Fe RDC’s but that was an outlier. It did end their relationship with although it should not have.
Even in the modern age well into the 2000’s VIA/CN ran up to ten scheduled RDC’s Toronto-Niagara Falls. Took those trains out of Toronto Union many times and I would be back in Burlington way before anyone could drive it on the QEW. 20-25 minutes, they just let 'em go, you could really feel the speed. Highway all jammed and slow going. We would wave and we zipped by. You could buy your ticket on board, relax and have a smoke. Those days are gone, but it wasn’t that long ago.
Agree. That’s why in my post on Nov 9, I admitted that these fancy looking Railbuses couldn’t prevent the demise of “interurban” in the States when local folks could easily obtain a less expensive truck or 2nd hand cars. Even buses; which is more feasible and cheap became irrelevant.
The reason I think ACF Motorailer was underrated is that there was a very rare successful example happened on MoPac ‘Eaglette’ MotoRailer #670, where the local folks actually developed an emotional bonding with the car:
" When word got out the the Eaglette’s Lincoln-Union service was to come to an end, words of protest from the public reached the highest places. One letter written to the Nebraska State Railway Commision stated that no less than Paul J. Neff himself, MP’s chief executive officer, heard of the impending retirement from of the Eaglette in 1952. It so happened that the Motorailer was a long-time favorite of Neff’s – by the time he had his say the Eaglette was immediately back in service and the official responsible for its early retirement was demoted."
This example really made me rethink the potential of Railbus in the States since this kind of vehicle were widely used in many EU countries. But I didn’t pay enough attention to the postwar development of automobiles industry in the States.
TheNarragansette Pier Railroad, connecting with the NYNH&H at Kingston, R. I., used a flanged-wheeled school bus, painted blue, as its only passenger service for many years, rode it 1950. Ran backwards one-way, not turning at end ponits.
