Has anyone got an idea on how sensitive things are at places commonly frequented like Tehachapi , are they now off limits ?
Just to add a twist I’m a railfan , I’m a video maker and dare I say it I’m a foreigner. But wait I’m a friendly foreigner , AUSTRALIAN , we’re sort of replicas of the U.S. ( but somehow we ended up driving on the other side of the road). You guys get “yankee go home” and we get “aussie go home” , as strong believers in freedom and allies of America we get a lot of lunatics wanting to kill us to.
So far the security situation with rail is not too bad here although there is security watching. A larger worry of the railroads is lawyers suing them because vandals and grafitti artists get bar-b-qued on overhead wire. Believe it or not we may be able to out-litigate the U.S. lawyers , things like million dollar pay outs for drunk & speeding drivers who crashed on a bend - the reason they won was the local council should have provided a straight road !
I suspect some of the anti-railfan reaction in the U.S. may be a way of scaring off anybody no matter who they are , in particular hot spots for vandals.
So how are railroads dealing with us dumb tourists waiting on a platform for a train with a valid ticket and we take a photo as our train comes in ?
" ALL THE WAY WITH THE U.S.A. "
P.S. ED we have the best equipped F111’s flying , call John Howard if you need some !
I agree with what you said especially about the availability of satellite images of railroad lines, photos of railroad lines and the plans for most bridges. For a short time back in the early 1950’s we went through a similar period of hysteria regarding not photographing trains even from public property, but this time it was during te Korean “Police Action” and the worry about what the Commies might do to the American railroads. Then only photographs were available, and not satellite images. Fortunately, this hysteria was very short lived, and very few, if any, railfans were actually were hassled. I believe this hysteria will pass with time.
Next thing you know a group of towel heads kills some folks in car and we’re all walking to work. Lets not progress at all and learn from the past let’s just keep getting stupider. I can tell by the last word in my last sentence it’s already working. To hel* with liberty, lets just bow to the establishment now and save ourselves the hassle later. How stupid can America get? “Wow! Extended warranty, how can I go wrong” sums it up.
Heres a thought. Trusting a government official is going to net you the same results as trusting a starving dog to gaurd your steak while you run out for a bit.
Become a religious fanatic that involves killing americans, wrap your head up in a dirty bath towel, barely speek english (lower case e intentional) bath never, buy a gas station and use the constitution to wipe your as* with and you shouldn’t have any problems from here on out.
“But it is hard to fight someone you dont know who it is or what they look like that is what has the law enforcment looking at everyone.” Do some research on terrorism, domestic and abroad. I think its pretty clear who they should be looking at.
“It may sound silly, but the day you, and all other Americans cant walk around, taking pictures of their own country, and the things we have struggled so hard and so long to make here is the day the terrorist have, in part, accomplished their mission, to change America. I dont want that to happen, and I hope most Americans would agree.”
To late Ed. Go downtown and try to photo a federally owned property. You’ll be toothbrushing a toilet in Leavenworth before supper time.
Careful with the shooting yourself Ed, a good attorney could turn that into a liability suit for your finger, the boot maker, the gun maker, the ammo maker, the guns and ammo dealer, the steel makers of the gun steel, your fam. physician for not recognizing your self-destruction symptoms…
Has anyone else here noticed the irony that railroads are cracking down on railfans but the AAR has a link in the imnage to the right where we can pay to join their club?
You forgot the sock maker, they should reconize that people often shoot their own feet, and add kevlar along with the polyster and cotton…or would the cotton growers sue the kevlar people?
Ed
Heres one for you. USGS survey maps, on line cheap, exact to almost any scale, for just about every square inch of this country. But you get hassled for taking a picture of a train?
Do what?
Ed
I guess this gets us around to just what can we do? I’ve been an active railfan for 40 years - I enjoy going out and watching and photographing trains (30,000 + slides). I have never been hurt, I have never destroyed RR property, and I’d like to think that my presence has scared off “hooligans” more than a few times. Based on general directives to RR police and Office of Homeland Security it sounds more and more like we will not be permitted to continue our endevor - either on or off RR property. I really think that it is time for both sides of this issue to work out some reasonable policies. It’s like telling fly fisherman that they can’t fish anymore because the potential exisits for terrorists poisoning water supplies. NYC has already banned photography of bridges (idiotic!) because of the potential of someone using photos to plan an attack. I’ve got news for you, you can lay your hands on plans for most of the major landmark structures in the country. Not to mention satellite images of most rail lines. I certainly understand the need to stay off of RR property - but to restrict our freedom to photograph trains must be defended. The police must work to understand who poses a threat and who doesn’t. It’s not a guy with $2000 worth of photo gear taking great train photos from public property. Perhaps our friends at Trains could weigh in on this.
Hey there, Mudhen,
I am the guy who posted this, so I think I can give you a point of view, at least from down here in Houston. What our Railroad Police have been doing is trying to keep people off property, not to stop them from watching. So far, if your on public property, and they notice you, they pull up and watch you watching. If you dont move on, they will approach you, and ask you for you ID. If you dont have any warrants, and you dont sound like someone who would, they explain why they approached you and questioned you, then they advise you to keep off property, and advised you that you most likley will be questioned again. So far, the only people they have arrested has been a devestatedly drunk guy who was walking down the middle of the yard, and walked straight into a parked locomotive, and a few kids stealing bags of flour out of a boxcar.
For the most part, they know the local fans, and again, as long as they are off porperty, no sweat. I would imagine most rr cops are acting the same way, and most know who is a railfan and who dosnt fit the description. But I posted this with the intent of giving you guys a heads up, not trying to scare you off, just be prepared to be looked at more closely. I would guess the guys with the cheap little disposable cameras and small digital rigs trying not to be noticed would draw more attention than the guy with the Cannon F1, tripod and telephoto, who is highly visable and acts like he has every right in the world to take pictures of anything he wants to from public property, which you have, so far.
But yeah, it would make sense to start a dialog with the powers that be to see exactly they will tolerate. Hope you dont let them scare you off, I would hope they understand that the rights you are excersising are the ones they should be protecting…
Stay Frosty,
Ed
I’ve been reading the posts here for the first time. I just read on a couple of web sites that even if your not on railroad property, you will be questioned. Seems that a guy in greenville tx. which is right down the road from where I live, was photographing trains on the KCS in greenville. He took pictures then moved on to farmersville, about 13 miles away. Set up and waited for the train. When the train passed the conductor called the yard in wylie tx. to report a suspicious individual taking photos. He heard them on the scanner, but continued to lavon tx.set up again, and had the engineer flip him the finger. It wasn’t a thunbs up! anyway the crew got his license plate number. his wife called him to say that a railroad official had just called the house. he got the number from her then called the official back. the railroad asked him to stop taking photos of their trains. Also read about problems aroun the tower 55 area in ft.worth. a guy had the police, and the f.b.i. show up on him, even though he had railroad mags in the back seat the police still didn’t believe him when he told them what he was doing! All this kinda sucks, I dont have expensive equipment, but just got a used camcorder. GUESS I WONT GET TO USE IT! In my other activity , skateboarding there is a saying [use a skate go to prison] I guess the same will apply to railfanning too. JEZZ! I JUST CANT FIND AN ACCEPTIBLE HOBBY OR ACTIVITY!!! MIKE
Hi Mike, sorry to hear your gonna let one or two bad stories chase you away. In reality, most railroaders dont mind fans, at least I dont, and most of the guys I work with dont. But it all depends on the railroads point of view. Like I said, most of the railroad cops know the local fans, so why dont you go introduce yourself to them next time you see one crusing the property.
Explain you you are, what you want to do, and ask where they would think a good, public spot is. I hope, like most rr cops down here, they would take your name, check you out, and then suggest a close parking lot of public place.
What I want to tell you is to keep at it, until they tell you to quit. Be paient, polite and cooperative, but its still not illegal. Dont force the issue to the point you get into trouble, there are still lots of places and lots of railroads that dont mind fans. Remember, before sept. 11th, theses problems were around, it just has been magnified by this tragedy.
Stay Frosty,
Ed
this is a little out of my league, but true terrorists seem to be very smart. Why would they tip their hand by exposing themselves to possible sightings. If they needed pictures of an area, wouldn’t they do it by tele-photo lens from afar.
We have so much available in electronics, etc. I can’t imagine our checking all the airports, trains and all transportation is going to stop someone who is determined to do something. So far all they have done is inconvenience the traveling public and scare the daylights out of everyone else. In my mind they are accomplishing a lot - they have made us very nervous!
I really don’t know…I haven’t been up there. Sorry,its just to dang cold around that lake and bay for me…My teeth chatter just from thinking about it! LOL