Somewhere I had heard that all Train crews are to report in all Railfans to the Railroad. Is this true? So much for being a Railfan trying to enjoy his or her hobby anymore. Mabe it’s just me.
Train crews are supposed to report people on or near tracks doing things that are non railroad related. I know this is true for NS, and I believe it might be true for CSX.
I would think it’s awfully hard for a freight train crew at speed to tell the difference between a rail fan or someone scoping out a train for theft or, god forbid, terrorism. Perhaps the pros here can give us a rough guess. What is it that the pros see more?- railfans or trespassers? Can they tell the difference?
Railroads have always been a good target for theft. They also have been recipients of target practice (a hunter who can’t hit a deer might try hitting a train… and succeed- yes, it’s happened), suicides, and of course, the ever present Darwin award contestants.
My standard practice before I start taking pictures is to clear it with the railroad. I have had good experiences with some CSX trainmasters, who took a few minutes to tell me where to take the best shots and still be safe. A couple of NS engineers and crews have also taken the time to find out who I am and to let me know what’s OK and what’s not. I have also been told by assistant trainmasters that they don’t want me taking pictures on their property, and I comply with that.
There are plenty of good reasons to report people trackside, not all of them having to do with hassling railfans.
Erik
Well I suspect crews are and always have been expected to report trespassers. I have not heard that they are expected to report on someone standing on public property with camera, or scanner, or notebook, in hand. That could be a lot of reporting – and to whom?
Having said that, this last week some kids in the Milwaukee area were arrested for stealing – by using crowbars and other tools – hundreds of track spikes from an active line! The article said they got the idea from a movie – any idea what movie? They intended to sell the steel for money. It is asking alot to expect train crews to know the difference between someone standing on the property to record the number of your locomotive and someone standing on the property because after your train passes by they intend to pull up all the spikes!
I know that the CP/Soo crews at Waterford Avenue in Milwaukee often joke over the radio that “the papparazzi are out today” but I think in part that is because they know we are listening to them. I hardly think they are talking in code to get the railroad police out there. The railroad crews and the railroad police know the familiar faces anyway.
Interestingly, remember that the 9/11 terrorists trained to fly planes. A carefully planned terrorist attack involving the rails might more easily involve terrorists who have gotten jobs for the railroad than it would railfans. The crews go places we fans never could, like directly into industrial property. Just a thought. Maybe the suspicions are flowing the wrong direction here.
I picked up a pamphlet about terrorism that the Coast Guard published for civilian boaters. I found it fascinating that it asked pleasure boaters to keep an eye out for suspicious activity in the ports and docks and to TAKE PICTURES of anything that looked suspicious and share the pics with the Coast Guards. &n
Well, there you go - the trump card to play when they ask “Haven’t you heard of 9/11?” If you are challenged by law enforcement (and assuming you aren’t otherwise breaking the law - like trespassing), just tell them that you, too, are on the lookout for terrorists and if you become aware of any, you’ll share your pictures with the authorities…
Check with your local Coast Guard detachment (assuming you have suitable water near you). Get the pamphlet. Show it to the officer and tell them you are doing the same thing, only around the railroads…
But what about let’s say. Someone like me who loves to take Video of Trains? I love the sights and sounds of the Trains on Video. Man. It’s a scrary world out there.
Dave, you are 100% correct.
I used to invite railfans up on the locomotive quite frequently; although that was back in the 1970’s. I’ve given cab rides to my wife, friends, and relatives. Unfortunately, that is no longer a viable option…the risks are just too great. Which is, as Dave mentioned, very sad.
My first hands-on rail experience was in downtown Milwaukee. My dad took me to the depots to see the trains. A very nice Milwaukee Road Engineer offered my dad and I the opportunity to climb up into the cab. I was all of about 7 years old, but I remember it well, even to this day (45 years later). I thought the cab was so cool, and at that point I was hooked on trains forever.
On UP MoW employees are also supposed to report or run off trespassers. I’m supposed to view anyone as a possible threat AND I’m then supposed to tell that person to leave. Yeah, right. This guy could be packing a gun and I’m gonna tell him to leave??? We get all the Soviet style propaganda about protecting the motherland. It’s our duty. Blah, blah, blah. It’s really just a way for a few power hungry people to stroke their egos by pushing other people around.
as far as that all train crews are to report the going on of railfans is concerned this is the first time that i’ve heard about .since the police and other agencies have thier hands full and not enough policing can be done to insure the safety of property or of individuals they need our help.as railfans we can spot things that are out of the ordinary and can help avoid certain situations.we the railfans have the right to take pictures or shoot videos ,because it is our tax dollars that make the riaroads tick.
There is help for you railfans out there!
News Release
BNSF Railway Asks Rail Fans for Cooperation To Keep America’s Rail System Safe
FORT WORTH, TEXAS, June 7, 2006:
BNSF Railway Company (BNSF) is recruiting rail fans to help keep BNSF properties safe by reporting suspicious activities and to help prevent possible security breaches.
“Keeping America’s rail transportation network safe from crime and terrorist activity is a high priority for the railroad industry,” says William Heileman, BNSF general director, Police and Protection Solutions. “Every day across the country, rail fans photograph and watch trains as they pass through communities. It seems natural to harness their interest to help keep America’s rail system safe.”
To report suspicious activity, CRS members and the public can call (800) 832-5452. The information will be taken by a BNSF representative and routed for appropriate response.
“Supporting homeland security in this manner is positive for everyone," says Carl Ice, BNSF’s executive vice president and chief operations officer. “It supports the nation’s security efforts, improves safety within our company and the community, and improves operations by helping to remove the impact of criminal acts and accidents.”
The CRS program is an outgrowth of another BNSF grassroots program, called BNSF ON GUARD, which encourages employees to report suspicious activities, trespassers or individuals to BNSF’s Resource Operations Call Center (ROCC). The BNSF ON GUARD program, which started in 2003, has been successful, with more than 200 employees reporting suspicious activities since its inception. Employees have reported theft, vandalism, arson, attempted suicide, and other criminal violations, threats to safety, or unusual events on or near railway properties.
“Security is everyone’s business. Because of heightened security status, Americans are being asked to be the ‘eyes and ears’ for law enforcement," says John Clark, BNSF assistant vice pr
What? With few exceptions, railroads are private corporations and pay tax just like us.
Ummm… not quite.
It’s our tax dollars that regulate the railroads in the USA. It’s their profits and income that make them tick. There is a difference.
There are not enough cops and security to actively police and secure everything. I have been a railfan for a number of years, and I sure don’t know everything there is to watch out for. If I did, I would be working for a railroad, and loving every minute of it. The point is that I leave the job of professional observation to the professionals. I do report obvious safety problems, like malfunctioning or non functioning crossing gates. But I would hesitate before I called in to NS with my perception of what might be wrong with one of their trains. And that bum lurking in the bushes could easily be a trainmaster doing his job.
Some companies welcome volunteer observation. Some give it short shrift. Some discourage it. Your status as a railfan does not give you any more priveleges than any other untrained, unhired, or generally unwelcome individual. Another way to look at it is this way: It’s Saturday morning, you are not at your best, and someone bangs on your front door. All they want to do is step into your lovely home and take pictures. Why, their photos might even end up in Architectural Digest! Do you:
a) Swing the door wide open, yell at the wife to put on the coffee and a bathrobe or-
b) Ask the person to come back at a better time or-
c) Reach for the shotgun behind your door?
Erik
You mean you trespass. Such a moralist person like you tresspases? I could not believe that you would break the law. Simple to all your worries is STAY on public grounds & there is NOBODY who can bother you right?
For one thing…I have never tresspassed ever on Railroad property. Are you accussing me of tresspassing? [:(!]
Well… I hate to get into this whole thing, but can’t you guys just get along? Wouldn’t it be easier to just ignore each other, than constantly be doing battle? Just my two cents…
[quote user=“dknelson”]
Well I suspect crews are and always have been expected to report trespassers. I have not heard that they are expected to report on someone standing on public property with camera, or scanner, or notebook, in hand. That could be a lot of reporting – and to whom?
Having said that, this last week some kids in the Milwaukee area were arrested for stealing – by using crowbars and other tools – hundreds of track spikes from an active line! The article said they got the idea from a movie – any idea what movie? They intended to sell the steel for money. It is asking alot to expect train crews to know the difference between someone standing on the property to record the number of your locomotive and someone standing on the property because after your train passes by they intend to pull up all the spikes!
I know that the CP/Soo crews at Waterford Avenue in Milwaukee often joke over the radio that “the papparazzi are out today” but I think in part that is because they know we are listening to them. I hardly think they are talking in code to get the railroad police out there. The railroad crews and the railroad police know the familiar faces anyway.
Interestingly, remember that the 9/11 terrorists trained to fly planes. A carefully planned terrorist attack involving the rails might more easily involve terrorists who have gotten jobs for the railroad than it would railfans. The crews go places we fans never could, like directly into industrial property. Just a thought. Maybe the suspicions are flowing the wrong direction here.
I picked up a pamphlet about terrorism that the Coast Guard published for civilian boaters. I found it fascinating that it asked pleasure boaters to keep an eye out for suspicious activity in the ports and docks and to TAKE PICTURES of anything that looked suspicious
How are the crews supposed to distinguish between a well meaning railfan and your run of the mill, beer swilling malcontent?
In the last 6 months I’ve seen guys shooting the propane tanks used for switch heaters with a 22 rifle (just for kicks, evidently. God forbid that they ever get a hi- power rifle), laying junk auto stabilizer bar in the flangeways of crossover diamonds (again, just for kicks), and try to carry away anything that’s not bolted down home with them…so I ask you “why shouldn’t road (or track) crews report strangers out of place?”
I can assure you that we are not asked to make any distinctions between people. We are required to report or request that EVERY tresspasser leave the property. It’s like we don’t have enough work to do. Now we’re supposed to be cops too.
If you take pictures from public property of trains everyone can report you as much as they want. It doesn’t prevent you from doing it, and no cop can tell you otherwise. As long as you aren’t breaking the law what are you afraid of?
I would think that for safety reasons alone the railroads are entirely justified in keeping everyone other than trained employees off of the property. Imagine what their insurance (and litigation) costs would be if they had to start covering everyone with a camera who wanted to get the perfect picture…
Amazingly, I have been invited into a cab once since 09/11/01. I was really surprised when I was invited.
OH, FOR CRIPES SAKE GUY, GET A BLEEPING LIFE AND STOP BEING SO DARNED PARANOID, WILL YOU PLEASE!