The problem that I see with this, is where would you derail a train that would have sufficient impact to achieve terrorist objectives?
Maybe one of the major Amtrak routes, but even then it’s not the major havoc that would have the type impact that I imagine they would want.
Now, if perhaps they could smuggle a nuclear payload onto a freight, and detonate it in some major urban location, say the Alameda trench, or similar. then THAT would be a credible threat.
Convicted One, I’ll bet they’ll find the movie “Atomic Train” among the data of the terrorists to accomplish what you just mentioned. As for attacking a passenger train as described, Bin laden is right-it will only work once, and he is smart to understand that. As for the impact, it wil be large, not because of the derailment, but because it was Al Qaeda that did it. Heck, everybody could survive with varying injuries, but we all know how the American reaction would be, anyhow. An engineer using his cell phone while running a train involved in amajor crash with massive loss of life actually had much lesser impact than what an Al Qaeda derailment with no loss of life would have.
nppbbd, you’re being forced to leave the tracks? Are you sure you want to give up your rights? If anything, you could educate anyone who gives you trouble on the real situation. Some may learn, others will refuse to listen to anything you have to say, and other things could happen, too. if you just go leaving the tracks, then the terrorists have already won this next “attack”.
A big count is not required. We have already shown that we have zero tolerance for risk. Any event would result in us spending hundreds of billions of dollars trying to harden the rail network against all possible future threats.
We are going to bankrupt ourselves as we sink ever deeper into the swamp of paranoia.
A semi-organized band of primitive criminals is doing what no army has ever been able to do.
"We are going to bankrupt ourselves as we sink ever deeper into the swamp of paranoia.
-These are exactly the kinds fo things I was hoping humans would start learning after having repeated this stuff so many times, yet, they don’t. As the first line continues to prove true, the second will will always be made possible as a result. And then nature will get pissed off again and show everyone a few lessons again. And then all that extra security and dollars spent will be useless as many trains everywhere are thrown on the ground by earthquakes and/or other disasters with many times the number of lives lost as such accidents normally carry. Sadly, even then, humans still won’t seem to learn and will likely just continue repeating all this. Who owns the country by then, well, I don’t know. Perhaps China will do things differently when they take over.
One final thing, having just reread the first line, I hate to make this sound even worse, but backruptcy would be zero dollars. We are way in negative dollars-known as debt. We are so much worse than backrupt.
A semi-organized band of primitive criminals is doing what no army has ever been able to do."
I’ve heard of a couple of instances where RR infrastructure were being guarded by troops. One was the largest trestle in Carrizo Gorge on the SD&AE and the other were substations on the NYC’s Grand Central trackage.
The wreck of the City of San Francisco in August 1939 is evidence that a knowledgeable person can cause a lot of damage with a moderate amount of effort. On the other hand, that was before welded rail came into common use.
Taking train pictures is not a constitutional “right”. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are.
Not to be too picky here, but actually, neither are “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. These are amongst the “inalienable rights” declared in the US Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. And while the Fathers of Our Country tried to embody these principles in the Supreme Law of the Land (the Constitution), the Declaration itself is just that – a declaration of principles, without any legal standing. (Con Law 101)
“Liberty” and “pursuit of happiness” seem to fit the definition for some folk.
Yeah, it is - First Amendment “freedom of speech” right, in the form of “freedom of expression”. Same basis as art, displays, stage productions, street theatre, movies (of various kinds) - even those which might be offensive, most recently the 8-to-1 U.S. Supreme Court opinion upholding the Westboro Baptist Church members protesting at military funerals - but I’ll stop here because this is a family forum. Only exceptions would be a clear threat to national security - train carrying atomic weapons or munitions - or reasonable rules that merely regulate the “time, place, and manner” of taking the photos, such as not on a passenger platform next to an active track, etc.
I suspect that many terrorists have a very limited idea of exactly what they are trying to attack, geographically.
I can think of a number of targets one could attack that would put more fear into the American public than a skyscraper in a big city. I could be wrong, but I suspect we can look for attacks on high-profile targets.
That doesn’t minimize any damage or loss of life, but it does mean that even several attacks probably won’t cripple the country the way these folks would probably like to think they will.
Despite increased precautions, life was mostly back to normal for most people on October 11, 2001.
From what i’ve read, it seems like attacks on railroads were more of the “brainstorming” type of planning.
I went out railfanning yesterday, and I don’t plan on changing my plans. I railfan in public areas, usually with one or both of my kids. If the Government thinks that a fat, short haired going bald, 40s white male with a moustache, glasses, and two kids is a national security problem, then we’ve really lost our focus in this country…
Well, I rode through the bowels of washington DC on the metro without a second glance, yet had to take off my belt to get into the Smithsonian’s Postal Museum.
go figure.
I’m not which is more surprising, that you had to take off your belt, or that the Smithsonian has a Postal Museum.[:-^]
Actually is pretty darn cool (and right next door to Union Station).
Tagging on:
A few years back I had a CN cop ask how long I had been a railfan. My answer was 'over fifty years because I had ridden behind steam on that line before I was in my teens. That comment diffused the situation. He turned out to be a nice guy after all.
You know, this all ties into the new Amtrak program and the no-fly list turning into a no-ride list…it’s a conspiracy to keep railfans away from railroads and to kill Amtrak!
Heh yeah, I can relate to that. Railfans being added to the no-ride list because we do “suspicious activities” trackside… that’s the last thing we need. What are we to do if we get on the no-ride list because of just standard railfan activities? Become hobos?
Hmmm - the threat reportedly found in OBL’s stuff talked about damaging the tracks. So they’re going to not allow “potential terrorists” to ride? Seems to me we’d be safer if they were on the train…
Actually what would be really cool would be a “Rail Watchers” program - a formal program put together by law enforcement where they would actually do background checks and stuff on us, and let us know specifics of what to watch for on the rails. Similar to the BNSF citizens for rail security program but more formal. This way, if every approached by a cop trackside we could present our ID to them and then they could just leave us alone and let us watch trains. Now I’m sure someone here is going to say well that’s going to cost money and yeah it is - but I completely wouldn’t mind paying for such a program out of my own pocket if that means I can be trackside and watch trains to my hearts content without having the fear of being bothered by law enforcement.
Amtrak already has a similar program. Go to the Amtrak web site for details.