I would love to hear some comments about the industries trend in crossing safety. I have to say I am very disturbed by their lack of concern for people crossing tracks. Operation Lifesaver which is a HUGE facade says that ALL accidents are the result of the DRIVER. If you really want to know the full story go to Angelsonthetracks.org. The railroad doesn’t want you to know the full story so with the help of the government they have ‘operation lifesaver’. As railroad enthusiast we need to put some pressure on these Gigantic money making companies to start spending some of there millions of dollars in PROFIT on fixing the incredible amount of ULTRA-HAZARDOUS crossings in the US. Take a look a Europe if you want to see how the railroads should respond to dangerous crossings. 0 fatalities vs. ~400 in the US. Something needs to be done!!! Thank you and I look forward to some dialog on this. I was a Juror on a crossing accident case and I found out the TRUTH!!! I absolutely couldn’t believe the incredible lack of concern on the railroads part for LIFE. Don’t let operation lifesaver fool you. Find out on your own.
I have this afternoon brought your posting (and the postings of others who are rightly concerned as to the nasty timbre this topic has taken) to the attention of Tom Chmielewski, editor of Trains.com (and the guy who OKs my checks). He is taking the proper steps to deal with it.
Hi Train,
Read your reply, agree, Read my post, 1/3/03 @1:36am on the posting titled railroaders ideas on improving crossing safety, and let me know if you agree…
Ed
Went to the sites you suggested but found nothing new there, as for the lawyers site, what do you expect, he makes his living off these collisions
I’m an engineer and I assure you its tragic for
me and any other crew member whenever we have
a crossing collision, but I dont blame the RR
company, they are guility of a lot of things
but causing car-train crashes isnt one of them.
Crossing collisions are caused by driver inattention, and/or trying to beat the train.
After a collision, if the driver of the automobile
(if hes still alive) will always say the engineer
wasnt blowing the horn (and the head light wasnt
on) but check inside whats left of the automobile
and you’ll find the radio or CD player is (was)
pumping the music out at 100db.
AND just about all collisions occur near the
drivers home, they knew the crossing was there,
I see it on a daily basis, you will see automobiles approach a crossing slowing down,
at night you’ll see their brake lights come on,
then all of a sudden they will release their
brakes and shoot across the tracks, these people
saw the train but decided to try and beat it,
if there is a collision they will say the train
wasnt blowing the horn, or they didnt see the
train because of a building or tree or something.
I hit a woman in 1997 that believe it or not was
putting on make up.
I’m sure the RRs could do a few things to help
and they have, they have offered citys money
to close some crossings but the public has said
no, not my crossing, remember this, in most cases
the tracks were there first, then came the roads
when the citys, countys, built roads across the
tracks they could have built overpasses, it wasnt
the Railroads responsibility. jackflash
Right on jackflash.And people know what those 2 steel rails are.Talking about overpasses i know one where they built a new school and when the road came through they did not build a bridge.CSX is told to slow down when school is in or be ticketed.
Thanks for bringing up the topic. However, there are flaws in your argument. First, there are many more vehicles per capita in the U.S. compared to Europe, hence more opportunities for train vs. vehicle collisions. Also, although I don’t have data in front of me to confirm this, I would wager there are fewer grade crossings per mile in Europe than in the U.S. This also greatly reduces the opportunity for incidents.
Second, state highway departments are largely responsible for grade crossings, not railroads. That’s because the roads arrived after the railroads and had to secure easements over the right of ways. Railroads maintain their grade crossing warning equipment and the immediate right of way. But state and local governments have to ante up if citizens want more or different warning devices at grade crossings.
Thirdly, Operation Lifesaver has proven to be an extraordinary success. Since its inception in 1972 the number of train vs. vehicle collisions has dropped almost four-fold, and there are more vehicles in the U.S. today than there were 30 years ago. Those kinds of statistics don’t lie.
Bottom line is that, except in rare cases, the fault for a collision lies with the inattentive/aggressive driver or trespasser, not the railroad. Having had two very close calls myself while in the cab of a locomotive, it would be difficult to convince me otherwise.
When I worked on the PRR I saw the frist car of many I would see get hit.This was in 1967.
The cabin car just cleared the crossing as we was just about to enter the crossing,the engineer was sounding the horn,the gates was down,from behind the cabin car a car shot out,BLAMMM! end of story.That driver would never make that fatal mistake again nor would his wife and 2 kids live to see another day…Who was at Fault?
The 2nd time a drive HIT the train 3 cars cars deep,at a unprotected except by cross bucks crossing.Surely this guy could see a train!
You should see the close calls that railroaders see every day…People is just into a big dang hurry to go nowhere and take unneeded risk,not only with trains,but with trucks and other cars as well…Why? Get right down to it who is really to blame?
How many times as someone pulled out in front of you just to go to the next drive way stop for on coming traffic and turn in? But if you hit them it is YOUR fault for them being foolish.
It is pass time for the courts to make these fools pay for their mistakes by not awarding them a penny-not one red cent.
In my close incounters i could easily see how the driver of the car couldnt see us. first thing was those anoyoing flashing lights and that ding ding ding of the bell. and the flashing ditch lights of the big black engine with head light on bright and that loud horn. it was just drowning out the music . and the kids jumping in the back seat in the car. if it wasnt for the gate comming down across the hood of the car so she haft to stop and look at the damage i think i would have got her. she was mad it was my fault that the gate hit her car.
another one was i was at 55mph saw 2 teenagers in the gage of the tracks . ( easy to tell their hats was on backwards) and i couldnt figure out why they wasnt moving off the tracks i was closing in when one of them looked back and saw me. why didnt they hear me. head phones. i dont know what they was listening to but it was laud enough not to here a ge comming.
or the 16 year old i did hit couse she didnt want to get off the tracks to see if we stop.
so the question that started this was how do we keep people from getting killed in america at crossing accedents. we dont, I aint in a corvette i cant move i cant stop. and a 6 year old has already learned that you dont get in front of a train. maybe 6 year old kids should be driving then. other wise we will take the dummies out of the jean pool. sorry to be so non carring but the truth does hurt.
First & formost any death or injury is a horrible situation to deal with. Period. Another thing is any possible media that can pass the info along to inform people to be carefull near trains is critical. But to pass all blame on the railroads…thats streaching the truth! I rember distinctively living in St.Francis Wi near the CNW crossings on St. Francis Ave when I was a youth. They had railroad police patroling the X-ings and track in my neighborhood. But I didnt really understand just how dangerous the tracks where until a conductor yelled “Don’t cross in front of me…I can’t stop…But you can!!” Dang…after cutting across the tracks many times less then 10 feet from a moving engine an a bike…It finaly dawned on me the awsome responsiblity to be on/near these creatures. These workers busted there rears off to keep me & my freinds safe. I talked to a few workers here & there, but they really practiced SAFETY FIRST!!
The people that realy need to be informed of the dangers of crossings “usualy” could care less about learning how to take a quick glance for a train…Its more fun to send the car airborne over the grading anyhow!! Again I’ve seen at least 3 accidents near 43 & Greenfield (Milwaukee)when the train was moving…bells & whistles blaring…flashing red lights…And bordy bordy boor…I dont need to stop…WHACK!! yep they pulled right infront of the train. If you think thats un real this one still blows me away
My Grand Pa told me a story of a farmer near Stevens Point Wi. The farmer had a RR x-ing on his farm that he crossed daily. One day he went to cross the track in his truck and got hit! The authoritys asked “Why didnt you stop for the train? You can see the smoke from miles away” The farmer hastily replied…“Why should I stop!? thats MY X-ing…Ive been crossing there for YEARS…The train should stop for ME” Again some times the people that need to learn just dont get it. Even after it happens.
Icemanmike-Milwaukee
Been to Europe, rode the trains, lots of them. Been to Japan, rode the train, lots of them too. Discovered this. One, there isnt a lot of grade crossings, a: because most of the right of way is owned by the goverments and they are smart enought to not build roads over highspeed railroad tracks. B: there isnt as many automobiles, they are too expensive to own there, hence there isnt as many roads, and thats why most people in europe and japan travel by train.
The railroads in America do not have jusisdiction to decide what type of grade crossing protection to provide at any given crossing. The local, state and county goverments decide what goes where, the railroad just has to pay to install the device, and maintain it.
Most railroad tracks and right of ways in America were purchased in the last century, and most were in rural areas, away from large populations, before there were cars to need crossings. The cities, and surburba grew up around the tracks, and bought the crossing property from the railroad, often having to sue the railroad to obtain the right to cross the tracks. Railroads hate things other that trains on their tracks.
The last two grade crossing “accidents” I have been in involved drivers weaving around a double arm gate, equipped with lights and bells. The last one, where the passenger jumped outside of the car, and tried to pu***he gate back up so his buddy could drive under it, cost his friend his life. All to beat a locomotive, pulling three cars.
What it seems your are saying is thats its the railroads responsibility to protect the automobile driver from their own stupidity.
So if I break into your garage, start playing around with your chainsaw, and end up cutting off my leg, I should sue you and be paid because you didnt stop me from breaking into your garage?
Anyone foolish enought to drive, step in front of, or just get close to a moving locomotive and the train it is pulling is going to be hurt. Would you allow your children to play on a airport runwa
This is a reply to the idiot who started this thread: You do not know what you are talking about! Operation lifesaver is a very good organization. They go to schools and educate kids my daughter’s age. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. I guess that it could be the RR’s fault when a car zigzags thru the gates, huh. I have seen the zigzag stunt quite a few times. Maybe the RRs should put big fluffy pillows on the fronts of the engines as not to hurt any moron that is not smart enough to stay out of the way. You sir are a jackass! Your way of thinking is exactly what perpetuates this sue happy socioty. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions. If you don’t like what I have posted, I will be happy to give you my personal E-mail and we can chat more personally about this. My advice to you is to stay far away from the tracks. You give foamers a bad name…
Ed you sounded as cold hearted as i did. I can say with out a doubt that railroaders are like cops in that we get a cold heart after years of seeing death. we have grown acustom to it and problem dont show it. when we say to people that we see, or we have. and not shiver its only becouse of the years of this happening. in my last post i started to mention but decided not to was a incident that i will share it is the one that sticks in my mind the most as haunting me ( for lack of better words).
i was east bound running 27mph this particular area has a crossing thru town about every 150ft. so youu are making lots of noise blowing for crossings there is 12 of them. i am looking at a mini-van running hard for the crossing and my conductor is wide eyed as i am couse we see 3 kids in the back faces pressed to the glass little hands on the glass looking wide eyed at us i am laying down on the horn hand on the automatic they are not stopping. she did stop finally with the front end on the crossing. then took off again. i lost her on my side of the engine the conductor said she cleared us. total distancee of near miss. 20ft. all we could think of was the kids. that was all we tallked about was the kids. what did the driver look like blonde long hair ( possible female dont know) all we saw was the kids scared. There are many others that all railroaders can talk about but the ones that will start will most likly have kids in them
to sum it up is it the railroads fault NO. is it the crews fault NO. If people wasnt in such a big hurry to go nowhere maybe we could save lives but as long as they remain stupid then death will prevail.
Its the kids that tear me up the most, because they cant make the decision to go or stop, their just along for the ride. What their parents are thinking is beyond me, how can what I assume are good, caring parents drive in front of a moving train with their kids in the car escapes me.
The part that keeps coming back and biting me is the dad lived, just got shook up, seat belt burn. The front knuckle hit the rear drivers door, drove it straight through, and pinned the little girl between the drivers rear door and the passenger rear door. It picked up the car, jammed it between the knuckle and the anti climber, clear off the ground. When we got stopped, dad stepped out the passenger side front without a problem. Go figure…
Ed
Thank you, I enjoyed that comment because you are probably right. However I tend to look at BOTH sides of a story and wanted to be on this trial for that purpose. I have come away from that trial with incredible sadness and disbelief in the attitude of the railroad industry. I have come to know the BOTH sides of the story and let me tell you if it was your son or daughter you would be fighting too because of the incredible amount of unconcern for human life on the railroads part. The ONLY way to make them show responsibility is to take money away from them. I had a hard time understanding that until this trial, I have since learned. Take care and God Bless you!!
The “problem” with grade crossings is that the the train by definition is going to “win” over the driver, but I hardly see how that makes it the railroad’s responsibility to design idiot-proof crossings.
How safe does a crossing have to be made if drivers ignore all the rules of the road? If drivers follow the rules – and that includes stop/look/listen if they DON’T know if a train is coming or not – there should be few if any accidents.
Dave Nelson
Thank you sir for your politeness,
I have to say thought that Operation Lifesaver tells ONE side of the story. Not ALL grade crossing accidents are caused by driver error or carelessness. Try starting a chapter in your area, guess what you can’t. The railroad wants FULL control of what is said. More on this later