Hello I routinely monitor Railroad Radios on my scanner, and would like to know what the tone that sounds before the train talks to the dispatcher is? What is the wattage on most Railroad radios? Do Railroads use repeaters? And finally do most train crews use propers radio lingo (over,out, roger, etc,ect…)? Please let me know thank you.
The tone is probably to trip an alert to let the train dispatcher know the is a train crew trying to call. Some dispatchers work multiple territories and are not always focusing on that particular territory / radio channel and need a way of knowing if a crew is trying to call when they are able to return focus to that territory. That tone has unique identifying information within it. Knowing what railroad and where you are talking about would help identify it, as there are a few other reasons tones are heard.
Wattage is probably around 10w for handhelds and ?50-100w? for the mountaintop base end. (note: that’s just an educated guess based on what I know about radios, I am a communications electronics technician.)
Yes, some railroads use repeaters, especially in the western US in mountain territory. Though the most common thing is for a dispatcher to have multiple mountaintop locations within each territory to cover a whole run, and there are typicaly 2-3 locations to cover each run of 150-250 miles in the west. A dispatcher running multiple territorys, say 3, might have a dozen or so radio channels / mountaintop locations to communicate with there crews. That could mean 12 seperate raidios are within reach on there desk(s), or 12 icons to choose from on a computer screen, and everything in between. The road channels are designated for each segment of track within a radio / mt. top range and at set fixed points the crews change the channels on the radio units. There will be a sign that says so where this happens like “Road channel 96 96” Which means AAR channel 96 for both transmit and AAR channel 96 for recieve (simplex). The dispatchers know where the trains are and what radio / channel to use to reach them.
As to lingo, No, they don’t use any kind of conventional radio protocall, no ‘‘over and out’ and ‘rodger dodger’ kind of junk you hear on C.B.s. What you will hear is things like ‘three to a joint’…‘set and centered’…‘bring em’ back’…ect. and if more then
You might hear “roger” sometimes. You will hear “over and out.” That is required by rule, except when making switching moves.
Once in a while I’ll talk to the dispatcher by phone from the yard office. I’m so used to talking to them by radio that I’ll still say “over” when finishing a sentence and expecting a reply.
Of all rules, the ones pertaining to radio usage are probably the ones most often “bent.”
Jeff
Is that right? Not to doubt you Jeff, you are professional and I’m not, but I honestly can’t recall ever hearing a “over and out” [%-)]??? And I listen to my scanner 24 / 7 most of the time and have for most of 20 years now… [8D]
We’re supposed to use ‘over’ and ‘out’ as well. But not usually ‘over and out’.
Over gets used more than out. I probably don’t use them as much as a hit team (or swat team, aka weed weasels would like, but ask me if I care…)
GCOR Rule 2.4 Ending transmission.
Over, when expecting a reply. Out, with proper identification preceding it, when no reply is expected.
Not required when switching.
I don’t doubt you. As I said, these rules are sometimes not observed as they should be. I would think you would at least hear the dispatcher saying “over and out.” However, an audit of radio procedures a few years ago found that, around the Council Bluffs area anyway, the biggest benders of the radio rules were yardmasters and dispatchers.
Jeff
Over on the CN in the Neenah area, I hear “over” and “roger” a lot from train crews. With the RTC, I hear “over” and “roger” all the time. Customer Service will always say “over” after every sentence and “out” when done.
I am going to guess that in Canada, instead of saying “over” they say “eh” 
“As to lingo, No, they don’t use any kind of conventional radio protocall”
They would do well to standardize some phraseology. It would certainly lead to better communication.I spent the last thirty years in aviation, and communication there is as standardized as possible. Initial communication between an airplane and a controller is always preceded by the aircraft’s identification.
Perhaps ‘lingo’ between a yard crew that is used to working together will git’r done’', but on the road there is a good case to be made for definitive phrases.
“Over, over and out” are totally passe words almost never used any more. The receiving party should be able to tell when the sender is done transmitting.
I have read somewhere that ‘over and out’ is superfluous. It’s either over or out. Sort of mutually exclusive. ‘Over and Out’ probably started in a B movie; B movies were always short on good dialogue.
Art
And no radio procedure thread is complete without this learning tool:
Cool cartoon Zug.[:)]
Dispatchers are constantly E-tested on radio procedure. No need for weed weasels…all Dispatcher radio communications are recorded and supervision can access any transmission on demand.
Same applies to air traffic controllers, and they live in fear of the FAA requesting them.
I will only speak of air traffic rules. "roger, wilco, out, over (not used until a second transmission where the first not acknowledged),not used on FM radios. When using AM or single side band (SSB) the reception is many times so bad (oceanic, polar, some SA or Africa that the terms except wilco are often used. Yes = affirimative, No = Negative.-
aircraft generally acknowledge all clearances with a full or abreviated read back to lower congestion. If a correction then ATC will correct portions or all depending on situation. Traffic advisorys usually have aircraft replying — insight or looking. Weather advisorys – a little more loose.
The tones you here are activations tones for transmitter towers. For example listening to the LaCrosse, WI stream on radioreference.com, you will here tones “2-7-8” constantly, as CP train crews contact the Dispatcher via Medary tower which is located alongside Medary siding the first siding east of LaCrosse. The Dispatcher comes back “CP Wisconsin Dispatcher Minneapolis answering Medary radio over”. The next tower to the east is Sparta, WI accessed via tones “2-5-6”.
The radio rules are right there in the rulebook (GCOR or NORAC) plus in the FRA operating rules. FCC and FRA compliance folks are all over the place and would love to to hand you a code-1 Zuggy, but they tend to congregate around yards.
You are exempt if you have a roger/beep/squawk device on the radio and also when calling out cars to a stop/joint/spot…FCC just raised heck with BNSF and UP here in Denver over the wattage in the yard repeaters interfering with city ops and then went after the local constabulary for its base radio walking on everybody else.
I try to use “over” and “out” when appropriate. Not everyone does, but we’re getting better, after a nudge from the FRA a couple of years ago.
A tone I often hear on RR radio comes on after a crew tones the dispatcher. I take it to indicates they they’ve activated the ‘link’.
Inasmuch as they have somebody providing overview and guidance on a national level (FRA), the railroads are actually pretty consistent on their procedures and lingo. There are differences, too - the protection to be afforded when someone is going to foul the consist is known variously as “three step,” “red zone,” “in between,” and others, I’m sure. Likewise, the method of conveying authority to occupy controlled track has a number of names, depending on railroad and region.
If you want to hear some huge differences in lingo, etc, try public safety. “Signals,” “codes,” and varying names for a given piece of equipment can make listening in across the country a real challenge. F’rinstance, what we in the fire service call a “rescue” hereabouts is known as a “squad” in the middle Atlantic region. And out west, “rescue” often refers to an ambulance.
Out here, there’s a radio base below my house. I know there are also others along the way on these lines, both with NS and B&P. Anytime an NS crew dials in (usually 3 buttons), there’s a delay, then a long, single tone. On the B&P, a crew dialing up the dispatcher seems to only use 1 button (during the only times I was close enough to hear the crew do it), and they get their tone almost immediately after (sounds as “beep, beep…beep, beep”).
I hear plenty of "roger"s, "over"s, and "dispatch out"s. “Over and out” should never be used like that-it ain’t good language!
While I’m thinking of it, the NS dispatcher usually takes a long time to get back to the crew after being called up (it’s common for them to retry it a few times, even if they got the return tone). The B&P usually responds immediately. Of course, B&P is a fraction the size of NS.
Regarding radio power - locomotives will be in the 40 watt range (rated power for the Moto Spectra “Clean Cab”). Handhelds are most generally 4 or 5 watts.
I suspect base type radios will also be in the 40 watt range, although a repeater or other longer-range application could go to 100 watts. Due to the linear nature of railroads, they will often use directional antennas as well.
I have to disagree on that. I think the bases use way more power than the locomotives. Most of the time, I do not hear the B&P train crews, but I hear the dispatchers just fine. On the NS, I often can hear the dispatcher (even on a distant base), but not always the train, even when I know they’ve reached elevated areas. I also notice that the distacher, even when using the local base, can hear the train crew in the distance, while I can’t. Of course, the base has a far more impressive antenna than what I’ve got, but still, I’m 99% certain the bases use way more power and have better antenna sensitivity than the locomotive rigs.