With all of the “rail banking” which has gone on and is continuing to go on with currently unused RR freight lines, I was wondering what this portends for possible “future” rail expansion or usage. Is the primary purpose of rail banking to create more walking trails and the like for the public at large, or is it an attempt to do as its name suggests–to “bank” the actual linear acreage in question so that, if future demands call for the “restoration” of RRs as freight carriers due to increases in fuel prices or higher demand for alternative transportation options, it will be easier to convert it back into a RR line. Will freight RRing (or passenger RRing, for that matter) have a future golden age, or will other issues such as eminent domain and the sanctity of private property trump these potentials?
I have some (small) legal involvement with rail banking, and the initial push to rails-to-trails was the genuine desire for rail banking. Moreover, the mantra of “rail banking” is still iterated for every new rails-to-trails with which I have been involved.
However, I think the transportation needs of this country and problems associated therewith would have to increase twenty fold for there even to be a chance for “some” of these trails to become rails again.
I could go on for ever, but in short, the problem is kind of similar to possession being 9-10ths of the law. Once tracks are on the ground, NIMBY is not a big problem for rail expansion such as upgrading the line to accomodate more trains–the problem with Mayo is not the proposed increase of rail traffic, but the use of government funds to purchase it.
There actually have been some very limited instances where companies have attempted to revert a trail to rails–usually for an industrial spur or something like that (there are two instances in Michigan that I can think of).
…We most likely will not see much at all of restoring any rail lines on old ROW’s turned into trails. But one thing for sure…As stated above it would be most difficult to return it to rail installation and use again, but it most likely would be that difficult plus more difficult trying to remove whatever was built on it {the ROW}, if it was abandoned and open to the public to have been building across it in the passing years. Buildings, homes, businesses…etc…
The ROW would be obliterated quickly and covered with priviate property, etc…making it more difficult to do any thing with in the order of transportation.
There is a group of private investors in the Black Hills of South Dakota who are trying to restore some railroad passenger service between Rapid City and Deadwood in the northern Black Hills. The official name of this organization is “Black Hills Transportation, Inc.” The corporate attorney representing Black Hills Transportation, Inc. is an old friend of mine who has been practicing law in Deadwood for a good many years. Here in South Dakota we have legalized gambling, and the gambling/casino industry in Deadwood has grown to the point where a lot of people are making the drive into Deadwood from Rapid City just to try their luck with slot machines and poker…and parking space within the city limits of Deadwood is at a premium. My friend in Deadwood told me in November last year that so far they had raised 95% of the needed 22.5 million dollars for this project and that one of the reasons he feels this project would be so successful is that people would have the option of leaving their cars in Rapid City and riding the train into Deadwood. Rapid City sits on the edge of the Black Hills itself.
Deadwood was once served by both the Burlington Route and the Chicago & Northwestern. The BN abandoned operations in the Black Hills and pulled out of Deadwood for the last time in 1983. And I believe that much of what was left of the CN&W’s trackage in this state was sold to the DM&E by the U.P.
Black Hills Transportation is negotiating with the DM&E to purchase the ex-CN&W trackage which runs between Rapid City and Whitewood, which is 9.5 miles outside of Deadwood. The trackage which runs between Whitewood and Deadwood was torn up a long time ago and there is a tunnel just outside of Whitewood that my friend and I had walked through in September of 1988. We paced it off and figured it was nearly 900 feet in length. Black Hills Transportation is planning on laying all new rail on the segment b
I agree with you, that it will be hard to put rails back on a trail. But doesn’t the law (as passed by congress) allow ANY railroad to re-rail these ‘banked’ right of ways?
Sure. But, it is not that simple. The law also allows the guilty to be convicted, the innocent to go free, for civil defendants to be free from frivolous lawsuits, plaintiffs to be made whole, and for me to practice law infront of a competent judge. As we all know, it doesn’t always work out that way.
Throw in the fact that the loss of a trail will immedately attract the ire of 30,000 citizens who use it and have property owners irate over losing 30% of their property value, things get murky really quick.
If there was a rail-banked line wherein the owner was geniunely committed to fighting such battles and the financial reward for doing so was worth the pain in the neck, then sure there would be little the community could do to stop it. But the the level of financial commitment required to deal with the legal and political reality of “making a withdrawal from the rail bank” is really quite signficant.
the old MILW track around here has almost completely been turned into a bike trail. however, there is still a very tiny area that was never even stripped of its rails. the old parallel spur, yet another track CNW decided they didnt want anymore, still remains
but i can safely say that it would not work at all if any railroad had interest in restoring a mainline to the bike trail around here. this trail sees a lot of bikers on it every day. even myself, as big of a railfan as i am, would not want to see it go…ok maybe i might. i dont use the trail a lot and would enjoy seeing more trains in these wherabouts. but i know the trail is here to stay. the city is currently expanding it and making the small portions of bike trail all connect
the slightly cooler thing is that part of the trail is parallel to the ex CNW ex mainline to Itasca, which now only goes up to Rice Lake. so you might catch the local if you bike it.
i also saw one instance in the Minnesota area out by Brainerd, if anyone lives around there. where there’s a railroad track that still exists but suddenly becomes a bike trail at a certain point. i think it’s due to the track branching off at a siding at one point. not entirely sure. i’ll try and find the name of the highway that goes parallel to the line and see if anyone knows more about this
i think though, that some bike trails could become railroads again if:
A- they are seldom used bike trails
B- the railroad, of course, wanted to restore the line
C- no public areas would be sacrificed in this resoration like the aforementioned replacing of a park with a factory. even i would never go with that idea
I’ve seen this line at Brainerd. It is an old Northern Pacific line, that heads north out of town toward Merryfield, and skirts several lakes. I think it’s been gone a long time, with no intention of ever bringing it back.
I doubt any will ever become rails again. The greenies will claim a rare snipe or mouse exists on the property and home owners will claim there was no railroad when they bought and they don’t want one. Politicians will cave every time.
thanks for the info. what i’m puzzled about is why only one half got turned into a bike trail and the rest isnt even dug up
as for lines never coming back elsewhere, i think old mains out in the rural areas could if there is ever enough demand and new indutries with interest in shipping by rail etc. a very unlikely dream, indeed, but still the most slim of slim possibilities. meaning there is always hope
sadly, the old CNW tracks to and from Itasca are gone for good…[V]
Thanks for all of the answers so far. Cueing off of ndbprr’s comment, another question/comment: There are of course, several urban housing projects or business developments that have been/are being built on property that has previously hosted, or abutted on, old RR yards or ROWs, and rather inane commentaries that follow (i.e., from Portland, Oregon’s Pearl District, where tenants of a very pricey condominium are now complaining about all the train noises and whistles from BNSF’s Lake Yard, b/c “they didn’t know there was a RR yard near MY property” [:O]) Legalistically speaking, if an ex-RR or ROW is “railbanked”, would any legal advantage accrue to future RR developing interests, even if, in the interim btw usages, the area has become residential, or relatively less industrial?
The point I would raise regarding the practical validity of rebuilding new rails over an old ROW is whether that abandoned ROW profile is even suited for a modern rail line. I know we hashed this somewhat in one of those Milwaukee threads, aka the PCE engineering was in some aspects ahead of it’s time, and could easily be reverted back to heavy haul rail usage (assuming the NIMBY and eco factors were put to rest). But some parts of that PCE ROW, though state of the art in 1910, would not be fit for 315k mile long consists, nor time sensitive TOFC - St. Paul Pass and Pipestone Pass come to mind.
Thus, the pat answers are either add capacity to current functioning lines (BNSF and UP out West here), or (if the desire is to build independent of UP and BNSF), start from scratch with a plea for federal aid to build new capacity aka DM&E’s PRB project.
It should be noted that abandoned ROW’s have been reutilized in recent past - BNSF’s line between Whitefish and Libby was rebuilt in part over parts of the old Haskell Pass ROW when Libby Dam was built. So it’s not entirely inconceivable that an existing abandoned ROW currently being used as a rail trail (or not) might become a new rail line in the future.
Then I would ask why the Mayo folks don’t raise similar concerns about that federal aid going to NS for that double stack clearance project? C’mon, Gabe, we all know that the concerns regarding federal loan aid to DM&E is a red herring - Mayo simply
I think you misunderstand my point about Mayo. Of course federal funds is a red herring. My point is, it is a political impediment–i.e. political sabotage of the government funds–rather than a legal impediment that is preventing DME from enhancing its capacity through Mayo. If DME had the money, there would be little if anything that Mayo could do to stop the project.
The property value issue refers to market value rather than assessed value. In Illinois, identical houses on identical lots in the same county would be assessed at the same value for tax purposes no matter where they are located. On the other hand, market value could be quite different if one house is located at 63rd & Central in Chicago(southwest corner of Midway Airport and under a runway approach) and the other is located in Orland Park (a booming suburb that is considered a prime location). Homeowners will attempt to do all sorts of things (legal and otherwise) to maintain or increase their property values,
Along BNSF’s shore line north of Seattle, you’ll find some of the ritziest, most sought after homes, right there overlooking a very active rail line. The point is, having an active (or newly active) rail line spitting distance from residential development does not necessarily equate to lowered property values for those homes. And you will find that property assessments correlate nicely with market values.
This is quite true, on the street where I used to live, there was a house 2 doors down from my apartment, in a nice, sought after Chicago suburb… th IHB was literally, less than 100 feet from the back door of the house… the house was a single story 3 bedroom, 1500 sq ft ranch, and it sold for 319,000… so, go figure. On this same street, there are three other houses for sale, where the back yards are up against the tracks, and they are all going for between 325,000 and 355,000 dollars. So, don’t give me that bunk about property values declining. And, in talking to at least one of the real estate agents in volved in selling these houses, she stated that the railroad’s proximity didn’t make much of a difference as far as home value went. So, again, go figure.
If the railroads continue to ‘strike out’ when attempting to restore a rail line, Do you think there could be any changes made to the law that would help them?