OK all you kit builders, Can I ask an honest question? Do you start off building kits(which to me, seem insanely expensive) as a step toward learning how to scratchbuild? or do kit builders never scratchbuild?
You know, I think HE was coming across as Chip thought, and as I thought. I have read CNJ in print before not only here but elsewhere. He has a superiority complex as far as I am concerned.
Bob
I got back into the hobby about 25 years ago, after being a teenage modeler previously. I didn’t have the money to buy Campbell kits when I was young, so I wanted to give one a try. I picked the cheapest one I could find so if I screwed it up I wouldn’t be out much. It was I believe a machine shop, pretty basic, with cardboard walls that were to be covered with the corrugated aluminum. I remember being somewhat intimidated by all of the instructions, plans and templates, but worked my way through it.
I moved on to other more complicated Campbell kits such as their water tower, coaling tower, supply shed, building under construction and a few I don’t remember. Most of these kits I got for good prices at local shows and won a few in model contests.
It didn’t take me too long to realise that I was paying a decent price for what has already been described as a “box of sticks” and some great plans and instructions, and I could probably do the same on my own. Which I did - I started scratchbuilding structures using the skills and tricks I had learned in assembling the Campbell kits and a few small Fine Scale Miniatures ones too. I credit these kits with my scratchbuilding skills. It does help to have a background in drafting as I do, being able to visualise and make my own plans and templates.
So whenever I see a mention of someone wanting to get into structure scratchbuilding, I always suggest assembling several kits like the Cambell ones to learn on.
To answer your last question, I build from all levels of kits, and I have scratchbuilt. The best analogy is that Campbell Kits are the collection of materials and plans to scratchbuild a given building model. As far as “insanely expensive,” some kits make a museum quality building models, and some look like train set buildings, as well as everything in between. The price tag will usually reflect this, as well as whether the kit is a limited run or not. I did start with kits because preassembled buildings weren’t available when I started in model railroading (mid 60’s). I’ve also assembled many locomotives and cars from kit because they were cheaper at the time.
You’re kidding, right?
Campbell was state of the art 40 years ago. With the advent of laser cutting in recent history Campbell kits are relagated to collectors and die hards. What I don’t understand is why they haven’t come into the 21st century and revised their fab methods. These kits have been in production so long that the costs of developing them were recouped years ago. Anything produced now is pure gravy for them. I mean, how much does it cost to box some “sticks”…[;)]
If you want a nice craftsman kit you’re better off with the more modern offerings. Leave Campbell kits for the collectors on ebay.
-G-
tatans,
When I first started out in MRRing four years ago, I began with a couple of Walthers kits before tackling a Suncoast FM Coaling tower. Boy, was that an eye opener! [:O] I didn’t realize what I was getting into when I bought the kit: A box of “sticks” with working drawings that had to converted to HO scale. Even so, I stuck with it. After converting dimensions, measuring, cutting, assembling, painting, and wiring; 100 hrs. later I had myself a decent looking FM Coaling tower.
As I mentioned earlier, I’ve assembled 3 craftsman kits in all and each one of them holds a warm place in my heart; not only for the amount of time spent in assembling them, but also for the amount of effort I’ve put into them to add more detailing than originally came with the kit. (Hence, my first kitbashing experiences.)
Since that time I’ve put together more Walthers kits, a few AMB kits, some resin kits, as well as tried a few scratch-building projects on my own. I’ve found that kits generally lead to kitbashing (sometimes in lesser or greater degrees), which “can” lead to scratch-building. This was the natural progression for me. I needed to hone my skills first - as well as purchase a few materials and tools - before venturing out and trying things on my own.
The key to kitbashing and scratch-building is to jump right in, give it a try, and not be afraid to make mistakes. And when you do, you do your best to fix and/or hide them. Start with a project that’s very simple. Once you develope and hone your “experimentation” skills, increase the complexity and challenge of subsequent projects.
The most important thing to remember about a Campbell or any other craftsman kit is TAKE YOUR TIME. We are all so used to the snap together buildings that we aproach these craftsman kits the same way. I started in HO as a kid in the '50s & you had a choice of cardboard kits or scratchbuilding. The cardboard warped so I started scratchbuilding. You could only find balsa sheets meant for model airplanes at the time. The siding had to be scribed & there were no plastic windows, so you had to make frames & sash from toothpicks etc. My first attempts were sad, but the quality improved as I gained more experience. I’ve had the same problem with crooked windows on Campbell kits. I usually drill a hole in the middle & file the opening to size, generally ignoring the die cut “openings” . keep trying the window in & fill any indentations that show with wood filler.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that it is easier to go from scratch building to snap together than the other way around.
The original owner of Campbells sold the businsess to another unrelated fellow named Cambell some time ago. His acquisition costs probably have yet to be recouped.
Campbell kits are more valued for their great instructions, plans and drawings, which did take a fair amount of effort to produce.
just bought a campbell truss bridge kit for 30.00 at hobby town + it had a 15% discount on all model railroad items and a free tool or paint of 5.00 value for ever $20.00 spent. Haven’t opened it yet as I am out of town in training so I guess I will wait another week.
mike
Bob,
We agree there. The instructions, plastic details and the rest of the sticks are fine. I can live with that. It will make a great completed model. It’s the walls that leave something to be desired. As I said, they will go together faster and easier if you just replace those wood walls with styrene.
This sounds like a case of geezer ranting. Better go to Walmart and get a blood pressure monitor. [:)]
I have mine.
Rich
Geezer? I’ll give you Geezer.
Careful there, SpaceMouse. Don’t make richg1998 push the abuse button. LOL. I will look for contact info for Campbells, I have somewhere. I see him (the new owner) once a year, but that will be about 6 months from now. Some how he will be made aware of your concerns. Having the die cut or score being out of align is a concern of anyone building a wood kit.
Thanks WP. But don’t do it on my account. I’ll have this sucker done before I can get a return authorization. I have like 5 or 6 other Campbell kits I stole off eBay. I’ll just handle them differently.
Having worked for a major greeting card company years ago making steel rule dies for greeting cards. It is very possible the cutting edge of the steel rule could have broken or wore down. We usually put a nicks (every so often) in the cutting edge to keep the center of the piece from falling out.
I have built my share of Campbell kits over the years. I always thought they were great kits. I now model in G scale and build my structures from pictures or plans. My lumber yard supplies me with my material and my table saw cuts my sticks and pieces. I do buy some doors and windows.
The one thing I have learned over the years is patience. It was something that I aquired over time. Sometimes I just need to walk away and return another day.
Walk away is what I did (that and post this rant thread). I don’t believe I lack for patience. I once took six weeks to paint an HO scale church.
And I agree. The issue is worn dies.
Not knowing if you bought a recently produced kit or a kit that was produced years ago. Old kits have a way of surfacing many years later. One problem with old kits is the wood can become brittle and split when you attempt to cut through it. Warpage is another common problem with old kits.
The present owner may have produced this kit, or it could have been produced by the original owner. I would take a chance and contact Campbells by mail and see if you can get a replacement piece. Most manufacturers will bend over backwards to keep/help a customer, if you approach them in a nice way.
Thanks. I suspect it is brittle wood as well.
Anyway, it is just a hiccup. Here’s the workaround. I simply glued it to a piece of scrap paper. It will give it flexability and strength. Don’t mind the excess glue, I’ll cut it away while it is still soft. I wanted the paper like a second skin. It’s drying with weight on it now.
Here’s my personal bit of superiority for you. I will not buy a Campbells Kit! So there! Actually, except for a small roundhouse, I’ve got enough structures already. By the time I’m ready to look at more, the entire hobby can go through another cycle of changes. Still, when one buys a kit, one expects solid flat pieces to be solid and flat. Punching out windows, trimming burrs and filing sprue bits are expected, but having to reinforce walls just to get it to stand? Pure silliness. Shame on you Campbells. Stick to chicken noodle and cream of mushroom!
I actually find scratchbuilding much easier and more relaxing than building craftsman kits. If a craftsman kit just has a box of sticks and plans, I might as well buy my own wood, get the plans, and build it MY way (cheaper too). Many plans and construction articles are available in older MR magazines, NGSL, RMC, and online for free. I’m in G scale so I can use the common sizes of stripwood and many other common objects.