Rapido HO Passenger Cars - Derailing

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Got a stumper on my hands. I have a 5 passenger car consist by Rapido. Three of the cars work just fine, but the other two derail. I have tried to do my investigative work before posting, and here are my observations.

~ The locations of the derailments are sporadic but usually on curves.

~ I have eliminated track work as the problem because my other Rapido passenger car consists are fine as are all of my Walthers passenger car consists.

~My curves are all 32" inch radius or sometimes greater, but never less.

~ Each car has a Kadee #36 long centerset coupler on the front and a Kadee #5 on the rear.

~ The trip pins are all clipped so no snagging occurs.

~ As a test, I added 1/2 ounce of weight over each truck on the two derailing cars, but they still derailed.

~ I reversed the trucks but the two cars still derailed.

~ Speaking of trucks, on the underside of each truck (where the truck connects to the body of the car) there are two arrows that point toward the end of the car. I spun the trucks around, but derailments continue.

~ I compared the 36" Rapido metal wheels to the Intermountain 36" metal wheels. No differences.

~ Leaving only the 3 non-derailing Rapido cars behind the loco, I added a Walthers passenger car. No derailments.

~ I added the 4th Rapido car ( one of the two that derail) behind the 3 non-derailing Rapido cars and the Walthers passenger car. That 4th Rapido car still derailed.

~ I added another Walthers passenger car behind the consist described directly above, and that 4th Rapido car derailed.

I am at wits end. Who will be first to solve my problem?

Rich

2

I would try swapping the trucks from a derailing car to an OK car to eliminate the trucks. See if the problem follows the trucks or the car.

Mel

My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

Bakersfield, California

Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.

3

Doggone it, Mel. Why didn’t I think of that as another possibility?

Good idea. Will do, stay tuned.

Rich

4

Rich I have been working on these beast for years and out of thirteen two are still in the fix stage, but I am confident I will resolve the issues.

Check this out.

https://rapidotrains.com/warranty/product-support/super-continental-line-product-support-page

5

Have you checked wheel gauge with a NMRA gauge? could be they are out of gauge (either too narrow or too wide).

worth testing to see if its part of the problem

6

Two more thoughts Rich, check the diaphragms for burrs. I found a few nubs that were causing problems.

I think it was Ed that actually changed out some trucks with the newer Rapido ones.

7

Wow, I will definitely take a look at that issue. Thanks for the link.

Those 5 cars are from the Super Continental Line.

I forgot to mention that I also have two other sets of Rapido Super Continental Line cars that run just fine on the layout.

Rich

8

Ooh, I had not thought of that. Thanks for the suggestion. One thing that I did do but forgot to mention is that I pulled out my Kadee Truck Tuner to check the trucks but they were fine even without any reaming. When I first got the cars, I had used the truck tuner back then.

Rich

9

I will check the diaphragms. Thanks.

Rich

10

You might want to check the trucks for warpage. I had a hopper that one of the trucks was so warped one wheel didn’t even touch the rail. Another thing to check is wheels centered on the axles. Even if they are in gage, they could be to one side or the other. Also had a P2K car with metal wheels on a plastic axle that was bent and the wheels wobbled.

Just something to look at.

Pete.

11

Pete, thanks for those suggestions. I will add them to my checklist.

Rich

12

OK, I tried Mel’s suggestion first of swapping the trucks from a non-derailing car to one of the two derailing cars, and here is what I got:

~ I ran the “good car”, that is the 3rd car with the trucks from the “bad car”, that is the 4th car. That 3rd car did not derail.

~ So, I added the 4th car to the consist with the trucks from the 3rd car. That 4th car did not derail.

~ So, I added the 5th car (the other “bad car”) without changing the trucks. The front truck of the 5th car derailed.

~ I removed that bad 5th car and added a known good Rapido car from another consist. No derailments.

~ So, then, I swapped the front truck of the known good Rapido car from that other consist with the “bad” truck from that 5th car. No derailments.

Finally, I added back the known good Rapido car from the other consist and ran a 6-car consist, that is all five Rapido cars from the first consist along with the known good Rapido car from the other consist, keeping those swapped trucks swapped. No derailments.

So, now I have all six tested cars running without any derailments. I am pleased but baffled. How did this all work out so well?

Rich

13

By the way, does anyone know the significance of the arrows on the underside of the Rapido trucks? Does it make any difference which way the arrows face?

Rich

14

Those Super Continental Cars out of the box were horrific. I had to do some surgery near the trucks and coupler area to make them run on 24" radius, plus adding the #146 couplers (long shank) to them.

By the way, the new Horizon and Comet Cars run well, no issues and no need to change couplers!

Neal

15

Ya, my new Canadian Pacific cars are incredible and I will buy a bunch more as they come out.

Jason has talked about what he learned with the Super Continental line and how they were not up to snuff. Growing pains of an upstart train company, I am more than happy with the improvements. I have also made good progress getting the Super Continental Line ones running well, it has taught me a lot if nothing else.

16

Well, I guess that I can draw some comfort from the fact that Rapido acknowledges some tracking flaws with the trucks. I will keep testing the 5-car consist, running the train in both directions on both mainline tracks.

Hopefully, whatever I did solved the problem. Incidentally, as I mentioned in my initial post, my curves are 32" minimum, so well above the minium recommended by Rapido.

The problematic truck(s) are on the Chicago & Eastern Illinois passenger cars, and these were all but impossible to find when Rapido produced them. I need them to represent the C&EI at Dearborn Station on my layout.

Rich

17

I like to come away from a problem that seems to have resolved with at least a smattering of predictive validity in the ‘solution’…something that makes for a general rule and go-to that I keep in my list of ‘let’s sees’ when I encounter similar problems of a type.

As some of you may know about me and derailments on curves, my first suspicion is always my own tracks, specifically that I somehow allow an outer rail to dip a bit. Most of my stuff rolls along there just fine, but a new set or engine will derail. I have literally ripped up an entire curve, cleaned up the roadbed, and relayed it with a bit more super. I have always won those battles. My point is, though, are these cars falling outward or inward. Is the last car derailing due to weight/rolling resistance/tightish curves? Or is the offending truck putting its lead axle outward? This tells a lot.

Also, once a truck is removed, if you can place if on a clean countertop, center some weight on it, just a couple of ounces to stabilize it, or a finger, can you extract a single sheet of paper from under all flanges with about the same pull? Maybe one of those flanges isn’t riding on the same plane and it causes derailments.

18

I will keep your analysis close at hand as I continue to test this passenger car consist. Thanks for posting. Good stuff. [Y]

Rich

19

I don’t like problems that resolve themselves. Like my neighbor said . The oil stopped leaking on my mower. I said , it’s probably not leaking because it’s out of oil.

Pete

20

Amen to that. That’s why I will continue to test the entire consist.

My one explanation is that one particular truck was at fault and all of the swapping find the right frame to ride on without derailing the car.

Rich