I need to know if I should solder feeder wires on all the switches and turnouts. I am building for DCC and there are a number of turnouts in my mountain area. I will be applying feeder wires every 3 feet on the lines, but I don’t trust connectors. I will have removable access to the switches in the hidden areas. another question I have been using my pnematic air brad gun to nail down roadbed and I’m using homosote which is also glued. I’ve used this roadbed in the past with no problems whatsoever. I am wondering if anyone has tried to use air brad nailers to tack down the rails seems to be an easy way. I am in no rush, I am retired and have been working on this for about 6 months and returning to this great hobby after about 30 years. I have learned a great deal lurking here and appreciate any comments. Jim
What is your distintion between a switch from a turnout? I personally keep solder as far away from turnouts as possible.
Every three feet? Dam, you like to work, don’t you? You need to go read this: http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/amr/index.htm That’s how to build a model railroda by Paul Templar. He’s been doing it better than 50 years. According to him, ever 20 feet is good enough. That’s a pretty comprehensive how to EBook he wrote there. I wouldn’t discount it. It comes from a professional.
I solder my feeder wires to the underside of the joiners, and then solder the joiners to the rails. That way I know everything is connected.
I always glue down track with Liquid Nails for Projects or white glue. Nails can distort the ties, which in turn will distort the track gauge and cause problems.
I couldn’t agree more about the liquid nails. I use LN-606. It even makes it easy to remove the track if I need to, especially on foam.
I solder feeder wires to every rail between a joint. I solder between rails only on curves. I solder to each part of a turnout including the isolated frog for DCC. I attach feeders by drilling a hole next to the rail, accordian bending the wire down through the hole, flatning the stripped end with pliers and soldering that flat end to the outside of the rail. The other end of the feeder of course is soldered to the bus. I should say I have hand made turnouts and hand laid rail. However, my concept would not change for sectioned track and turnouts. This topic has been examined many times on the forum and in books, and my conclusion is the experienced modelers desiring to assure good running with no electrical dead spots use this concept. There are those who have had success with fewer feeders. If using bought track, I would attach to my homosote with white glue, as I did my handlaid ties. Hal
Every 20 feet with DCC is begging for trouble. The person who wrote that e-book may have 50 years experience, but he must not use DCC. I solder a set of feeder wires at every flex track joint; i.e., every 3 feet, but not to the rail joiners. I never solder a turnout into position because turnouts are the only piece of trackwork with moving parts and will be the first thing to fail and need replacement. They are much easier to replace if they are not soldered. If the rail joiners alone don’t provide adequate power feed to a turnout and it does need feeder wires, I solder to both outer rails somewhere along their length, but not the rail joiners.
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I heartily agree especially if you are going to have sound.
I run an Atlas Trainmaster H24-66 DCC with sound and when I was testing my track with a single feeder attached, the loco would stop once it got 10 feet or so from the feeder. Once I connected all the feeders at about every 3-4 feet, it ran fine.
Oh and since my layout is temporary, my feeders are just soldered to the joiners. nothing is soldered directly to the track and it is working fine. Of course, over time, that might well change.
Right. I think Paul does run DC. I agree about the turnouts, too. I still think every three feet even for DCC is overkill, though. Still though, all in all, I guess it’s better to be safe than sorry.
I do solder every section of rail to a feeder - not to each other section of track. If the section is short, I may solder it to another 3’ section, but I usually drop a feeder, and run it to a ‘bus’ that feeds the DCC. With DCC, you are feeding 5+ amps of current and this may cause a problem with the sub-standard wiring we have seen with older DC layouts. I learned my lesson 20+ years ago with a DC layout - I had a 20 ft section wired with one feeder - a year later I had voltage drop problems. Soldering rail joiners in a tunnel is not fun! My current layout has over 300 feeders - It is running DCC and I have had no problems(4 power districts) with sound/DCC engines. Doing it right the first time with DC or DCC is just smart. DCC really shows the weaknesses of typical DC wiring…
As far as brad guns - I really see no problem. That said, I glue my Homabed roadbed down to 1/2" plywood sub-roadbed, and spike the track down so that the spike so NOT go into the plywood - this is for noise issues.
Jim
Nicklesilver rail is a poor conductor. I solder everything; track, turnouts, all rail joints. Feeders every 6 to 8 feet. Buss is 12 guage, Feeders are 22 - none are longer than 12", most are 6" to 8". About every 30 to40 feet I cut in expansion joints that are connected with jumpers.
Before I add a turnout, it is tuned up and tested at the workbench before being glued down and soldered to the track, (I have only had to remove one turnout in the past 20 years). I also bend my turnouts to fit the situation not the other way around, it looks alot more natural (like handlaid), glueing the turnouts downs helps hold their shape. I use 3M’s Spray77.
High precision avionics (aircraft instrumentation) isn’t held to a much higher standard than some folks seems to think their layouts need to get a train to run right.
Feeder spacing is one of the big DCC disputes in the hobby.
Feeders every three feet may be necessary, if you don’t know how to install rail joiners and/or just like to do unneeded work.
On my layout, rail joiners are not soldered except on curves (where they’re soldered only to maintain a smooth curve, NOT for electrical conductivity), and feeders are installed every 15-20 feet (closer to 15 on code 83 track; closer to 20 on code 100 hidden track). I’ve used DCC for several years and never had a problem with power loss, bad conductivity, or anything related to it (except at turnouts where the points route the power to the frog - there I’ve had to add some contacts to get reliable power to the frog).
Most DCC systems put 14+ volts onto the track (this is adjustable on many systems). For code 83 track, my locos are never farther than about 7 1/2 feet from a set of feeders. Voltage drop when pulling a couple of amps through code 83 track will not exceed about 2 1/2 volts. Since my locos actually pull less than two amps per unit (accounting for sound and motive power), voltage at the loco wheels is never less than 12 volts - ample voltage. If you like big diesel lash-ups, you may wind up pulling more current, but even three amps of draw will result in less than a 3 1/2 volt loss on that same track (locos are not all midway between feeders - length of lash-up becomes an important factor in calculating total voltage loss).
If someone wants to install feeders every three feet, have at - it’s your layout! But claiming that electrical problems WILL result if this isn’t done only showcases that your tracklaying skills may need refinement in this area, and NOT that power won’t get to the trains if you don’t do that.
I have a large HO layout. I solder every rail joint. Where there are blocks (yes, blocks don’t disappear with DCC if you are doing signaling and track detection), I cut a gap in the rails. Feeders are put in every block. The average length of a block is about 12’. I use code 100 rail. I have no problems with rail expansion/contraction. The layout is in a air conditioned/heated space with a temperature variance of +/- 10 degrees year round. I have had no problems with voltage drops over the expanse of the layout.
Steve
I would stop using the nail gun and use caulking for the track not liquid nails. I used liquid nails on a small section and it is much louder than the rest of the layout, but only I notice. Spread the caulking very thin wiegh it down for a while and it will stay put nicely.
I solder all joints that have any kind of stress ( most of them, few straights ) and cut expansion gaps away from curves and joints. I feed power every other piece of track or between gaps as needed, this comes out to about every 4-6 feet. My layout has expansion issues as it is in the garage and after this last summer the layout faired well, but I did add one expansion joint in an unexpected location. I have live frog turnouts so I only have one wire soldered to the turnout at the frog. I too started soldering my turnout joints after the turnout has proven reliable.
Thanks for your question and I look forward to some pictures.
Jim,Above ALL things use a NMRA gauge to check your track and switches to ensure they are in proper gauge through out.
Do as you wish on feeders but,IMHO every 3 feet is overkill…Digi Traxx suggests feeders every 6-8 feet for their DCC systems. I drop a feeder every 8 feet on my DC layouts.
There are many ways to ‘skin’ the proverbial cat, but DCC has upped the ante.
For maximum RELIABILITY, best practice now is to use: Nickel Silver rail, Buss wire and feeders to each section of track (not turnouts), not soldering rail joiners, but powering turnout frogs via external SPDT contacts if possible).
This allows all rail sections to rails to expand & contract and still receive equal power (and DCC signals), plus turnouts can be replaced easily. DCC works best if one has ‘power districts’ and extra protection from short circuits (see Joe Fugate’s posts).
Some say that all this isn’t necessary, but there are different degrees of reliability.
The trade-off is time. As one who has replaced bowed rails (expansion), soldering rail joiners on straight sections can have a heavy - and unecessary - price.
I haven’t used the pneumatic air gun method but had intended to try it when I construct my next layout. If it works reliably, it should greatly speed things up. However, as with using regular track nails, too much pressure can distort the track. Typical nail guns operate at about 90 psi. You may not need all of that pressure to penetrate the plastic ties or spike heads. Full pressure may blow the brad completely through the track and into the roadbead without securing the track. My suggestion would be to start out with the regulator set 45 psi and then adjust the pressure until the brad stops where you want it to. Then use a track gage to make sure has not been distorted anyhow.
Good Luck
I will support Mark’s contention that feeding the rails more frequently than about 10 feet is overkill. If one’s track is securly laid, fastened properly with joiners, and wires soldered to cover any gaps in continuity, you should have no problems with power anywhere on the layout.
On my last layout, with EZ-track resting on extruded foam, including on hand-hewn grades, I had three sets of feeders over the 36 foot main. I didn’t use a single solder, except to fix the feeders to the rails. I had no electrical problems over the year that I ran trains, daily.