This pre-fab benchwork I am seeing looks great, although with so many things’’ ready to roll’’ doesnt that take away a lot from this hobby. What is your opinion?
Speaking only for myself, I like having good quality things ready to roll. Later, I may change my mind, but at the moment I have my hands full with building a layout, and am grateful for the efforts of others who supply things that look good and run well. I am impatient, and am not really a modeler, per se. I have a fanciful, freelanced, layout on which I am developing skills. If I were to also build other things, like structures and rolling stock, I would probably leave the hobby with my current attitude and preferences. The only thing keeping me slogging through this interminable layout project is the knowledge that I have proven BLI, Lionel, and P2K locomotives that will run when I am ready for them.
It may be that I will evolve as so many others have and want to scratchbuild things that I will come to call "good’ or “better” than what is available commercially. Right now, no flippin’ way.
Personally I am not a big fan of R-T-R probably because I started just before RTR was introduced. I love doing something creative with my hands be it building a blue blox Athearn or any other train or rolling stock car that needs to be built. I love building building and detailing the inside. I will admit tho I do have a few locomotives that are sorta RTR and a lot of Built up buildings since they werent kits when I picked them up or they arent making kits of that particular model.
I like to build things, so I get kits whenever possible. Of course that means that I do think that RTR is taking deminishing the hobby. Unfortuntely, it appears that I am in the minority. I have done a few scratchbuilding and major kitbashing projects and intend to do more.
I am with you on r-t-r. I also have bought a few r-t-r box cars anfound them to be not really ready with plastic wheels and not weighted properly.etc. This causes people new to the hobby to have a lot of problems.( dreailments, and other performance problems ). I wonder if they are truly good for the future of this hobby. Maybe I am too old school.
Yeah, what he said.[#wstupid]
[:D]
All kidding aside, I am in the same boat as Crandell. When I first got into this hobby, I didnt have time to do the thigns I wanted too or the time to try and learn… but I wanted it now. RTR stuff was heaven sent. Some nights after work and the family, I had just enough time to come home, unpack it from the box, set on the tracks, and go to bed. Now that I am catching up and slowing down with the layout work load, I am starting to have fun dabbeling with small scratch building, custom painting and detail work.
Some of us, for various reasons, can’t do heavy bench work or work with small detail parts. With me it’s severe nerve damage. Since I can’t do those things, I either have to get somebody to do them for me, or get them pre-assembled. For me, rtr is great. I like building things just as much as the next person, but small parts are my Achilles heel, so rtr is the next best thing.
No…What RTR does is put highly detailed models in the hands of modelers that lack the needed skills to detail locomotives…Also a lot of RTR locomotives still need some detail parts added like radio antennas,mu hoses,plows,arm rests sun shades,cab interior etc…RTR cars need KD couplers and uncoupling bars added IF a modeler chooses to add the uncoupling bars.So you see some modeling is still require for RTR equipment.
As far as prefab benchwork or prebuilt layouts that gives those that lacks the basic carpentry skills needed to build benchwork a means to have a layout after all just about anybody can bolt or screw prefab layouts together.
Everyone makes of this hobby whatever they want. RTR is great for those who want it. Most of my locos are RTR, or so close as to not make any difference. The vast majority of my rolling stock, and ALL of my structures, are not. Certainly the benchwork isn’t.
If someone else’s idea of model railroading is to buy all RTR stuff from the floor up, that’s their choice, and their business. It’s not my place to say that’s wrong or right. The only thing that bothers me is that some manufacturers are going the RTR route and producing fewer (if any) kits, leaving me out in the cold. Profit for them, frustration for me.
Mark,There are still tons of car kits being produce…The REAL problem is getting some hobby shops to stock 'em…
For seven decades ours was a hobby based on talent, craftsmanship and creativity. But in recent years it has been evolving more toward one of basically collecting. Many so-called hobbyists don’t want, or can’t, build/detail locomotives even in the most basic sense, build any structures kits that are beyond simply gluing four walls together, or even assemble very basic rolling stock kits. The excuse of “lack of time” is often given but I feel it is just that; an excuse. If you don’t have the time to assemble even basic items or kits, then you really don’t have the time necessary to be a model railroader. Likewise, if you don’t enjoy the fun and challenge of building things yourself, then you are probably in the wrong hobby to begin with.
For those with some sort of physical problems that would preclude their participation in the hobby without RTR, I understand and appreciate their situation and the need for RTR…but for the rest, I do not. As I said, model railroading is a hobby about craftsmanship and creativity. It is not stamp collecting, although some today would seem to wish to turn it into one. Simply “owning” items does not automatically make you a participant in an artistic or craftsman’s hobby, any more than buying somebody elses paintings makes you an artist, or purchasing a piece of finished funiture makes you a cabinet maker. This may be a tough situation to face for some of the newbies but it is nevertheless the basic truth.
CNJ831
I don’t think RTR loco’s and rolling stock or pre-fab bench work take away from the hobby. In fact, I believe in this day and age it most likely adds to the hobby. Several people have already stated reasons ranging from medical conditions to lack of time as to why they prefer RTR over kits. Without RTR some of us would have never gotten into this hobby. So I think it is helping to keep the hobby going.
It’s all personal preference. I prefer to build my bench work because I get satisfaction knowing I built it from scratch with my own two hands. However, I don’t mind RTR or kits for rolling stock.
There are a lot of kits still out there. I’ve only been in this hobby since January and about 1/3 of my rolling stock are kits.
Bill
I like having the RTR option. I don’t always go that way but I often do. Between my full-time job and having two very young kids, the option of long, detailed scracthbuilding or craftsman projects is the option least chosen. That said, I do find the time now and then to do some work. Most of the rolling stock I use in N is RTR, although many require a change of trucks and couplers. I have some craftsman or kitbashed cars (such as a resin-kit Hell Gate Models B60b baggage car).
The RTR structure thing is interesting. I like how Atlas offers the built-up version and the kit. Walther’s, however, doesn’t. So, when I used Walther’s interlocking tower, watchman’s shanty, and speeder shed set as stand-ins (until I have that elusive time to build true-to-PRR buildings), I had to use a very, very fine brush to paint the pre-assembled structures into PRR colors (see below):
It would have been MUCH easier to paint on the sprues instead of after it was built. I prefer to see the option; i.e., offered both as a kit and as a built-up.
Ok heres the issue tho with prefab bench and already done benchwork. Its fine and dandy but dont use the excuse of lacking carpentry skills. I remember when I made the first layouts benchwork I had no idea on what Iwas doing i never built a thing like benchwork before. I built it and part of it is still being used today. The new layout I advanced a little because I learned carpentry from the first layout and asked for help when needed. So is a bunch of rusted bolts that people lack the ability ro measure, cut and screw wood together. Even my nephew when he was 5 can do it.
Now you stated people with problems that stop them from building benchwork such as a physically challenged or something on that line yeah then I agree pre-built is great. But if your just to darn lazy, and dont want to devote the time to a hobby like MR then dont get into it cause you need (break it down) Hobby time.
Luckily for me I own a small hobby business and basically baby sit my mom (have to be around if she falls she has problems walking loooong story) I can work on the layout and do what I need to do. but she when she has her good days helps out on scenery and buildings.
I think that if a person wants to get rtr items instead of putting them together from kits or taking the time to scratchbuild something or build their own benchwork, it doesn’t make them any less a model railroader. To be judged as not deserving the title “model railroader” based on these criteria is incorrect. They still do their own scenery, they still place their structures, light them, lay their own track, in many cases, do their own wiring. How does this that make them any less a model railroader than I am, or for that matter, my neighbor about half a mile up the road, a real rivet-counter who won’t even give the time of day to a bunch of people talking about trains on a forum. I have to say it the way my father says it. Don’t judge, lest ye be judged. Scratch-building, kit building, running by schedule, sticking true to prototype, these are not required to be a model railroader. If they were, the hobby would be much less popular than it is.
I think if Im remembering right the Interlocking tower suppose to come out as kits. I only have one on the layout cause it looks good and feel right where I have it. I model modern times but still like having some old structures on the layout.
You’re right for HO, but not N, which is my scale.
Love rtr, ever try to get rid of the seam on top of an mdc old time tank car, arrrrrrr!!!. What rtr has done for me is allowed me to collect a vast collection of plastic freight at cheap prices, but when I want to build a car I will ussually go to the craft kits like Ambroid ( although I prefer to repair them over building from scratch). Accually takes longer to repair than to build but I am a slow starter and you are starting with something.
Milwhiawatha,I seen guys that couldn’t read a tape measure,use a level,use a square or know a circular saw from a jig saw.Couldn’t tell the difference between a rip blade or a cross cut blade, and don’t even think about putting power tools in their paws unless you plan on being in the next county.Some folk NEVER learn carpentry skills…I know just enough to get by till the carpenter gets here.LOL!
Wow, that’s pretty dogmatic! Tell me, where do you draw the lines?
To be a “real” model railroader, do you have to scratchbuild everything? Or can you build from kits, too? How many separate pieces does a kit have to be to still qualify the builder as a model railroader? If you have to build a loco to be a model railroader, what parts can you NOT build and still meet the test? The motor, for example? Or do you have to wind your own? If you buy RTR trucks from Kadee, are y