What are realistic goals for the running quality of an HO layout??? Should it be able to run at 10 SMPH, 5, or what? Derailment free at what speeds and how many laps or back and forth depending on the type of layout? Looked on the net but didn’t even find anything, how well dose your layout run and what have you had to do to make it run better???
I like to run my 35 car trains at about 40 to 45 scale MPH when I feel like sitting back and watching. I have run them faster with no problems. Derailments are very rare for me and are usually caused by me, so for me that is a realistic goal that I have achieved. Some say that same train should also be able to run in reverse at 40 MPH and not derail. I don’t agree completely with this as I think the physics of pushing a train are different than pulling a train. Also models have many different characteristics than their full size counterparts. Again I can back that same 35 car train around and around the layout without a derailment. Though I do it at a much slower speed.
It all comes down to engineering. Even though it is a MRR, just like the real thing, the faster you want to go the better it has to be engineered. So engineer your layout for your needs (with a bit of padding built in) and have fun.
Brent[C):-)]
my trains have to be limited to 15-20 SMPH because of my poor track laying (too many track gaps and weird track corner).
Believe it or not, perfect derailment-free operation is a reasonable goal. I’ve achieved that on my subways, and have literally not had a derailment, other than those caused by mis-thrown turnouts or foreign objects in the right-of-way, for years. The trains run forwards and backwards at operational speeds.
Admittedly, this subway line has few turnouts and mostly operates on a completely flat loop. It supports only a limited variety of equipment - two trolleys and two 4-unit subway trains.
I’ve tried to do the same with the rest of my layout. I have one known trouble spot where one long-wheelbase steamer derails, and one day I will just fix it. It’s a vertical kink, easily visible using a straightedge, but the rest of my equipment is fine there. There’s another spot where I have trouble with one or two engines and multiple freight cars. However, that is still under construction, and the track is pinned in place rather than being glued and ballasted, and I believe the problem comes and goes because the track shifts a bit horizontally and vertically and causes kinks.
I don’t “test” my trackwork by backing at high speed. It’s nice to be able to do that, but it’s unnatural. That said, when I’m backing into a siding, slowly, I expect the cars to stay on the track.
“Perfect” operation is a reasonable goal. “Almost perfect” operation is a reasonable expectation.
But, this only applies when you are in the trainroom by yourself. When visitors come over, expect your most reliable trains to derail in unlikely places.
I think you’re question is a great one and one that the mfgrs of cheap trainsets should consider–especially at Christmastime. When many are bought, set up, problems occur and people become frustrated with the hobby and go somewhere else.
Anyway, to answer your question, our goal is for trouble free operation. That includes turntables, track, locos, couplers, sound, turnouts, switch machines, etc. I like to be able to run a loco at or near 1 smph and will either modify the loco and/or track to make it happen. Otherwise we don’t give it a full release to the layout. Maybe a special release–which means for a few special runs but kept offline.
All track changes/additions/deletions have to be tested with various rolling stock and locos and pass various gages, not just NMRA. For example when we have superelevation involved the transition to flat has to occur gently and evenly so we check rail height from a baseline.
Every loco and car has to go through inspection. Which almost always results in modifications/improvements and then back to inspection, which includes gages and trial runs of course. In the case of the locos the inspection checklist is dated and filed away for future reference if a problem occurs. This way we can avoid repeating problems.
Most of what we do is nothing new–it’s mostly just following nmra guidelines and recommended practices. For example, certain car and loco sizes work better on certain minimum size radii curves. If you’re not a member, consider joining.
Richard
For me, all my locos running at an above reasonable speed both forward and reverse and I will turn the loco around and do it all over it again. Same with rolling stock and if I have one that is giving me trouble I will watch it closely to see what is going on. I do have one section of track that will give some of my 6 axle locos troubles but part of it is my fault, I dont have it secured throughout the curve as I am still tinkering with an industry just off the curve and dont want to keep ripping up track until I am done with the area.
Oh, The fun of track laying.
If you really want to inspect you track, run one of these little four wheel MOW trucks or a string of six axle heavyweight passenger cars. The MOW truck will inspect the turnouts and also let you know if the frog is higher than the rail heads. The six axle cars or SD locomotives look for rail kinks or narrow track or tight curves.
Pretty much all of my derailments are operator error. [:-^]
Its all good.
Lee
One SMPH, most stuff manufactured won’t do that on perfectly level straight track! I do have a shay that will do that though but I get most to go both forward and back at full speed and at as slow as the engine will go in both directions. Hadn’t thought about facing both ways though. What I have discovered is that the prefab track (seems no mater who makes it ), has some minor issues or more. I use Shinohara code 70 and find that some points ride high (no big deal as a file will fix), also I had one threeway that needed the spikes trimmed believe it or not. Also I have found that a lot of engines are not really RP25 being just a bit deeper, doesn’t affect most except idiots like me who do code 70 (I hate to think what those that use code 55 think).
I am not a layout builder. I don’t like it particularly. But, I can’t play with the trains the way I enjoy them unless I grit my teeth and go through all it takes, from planning, revising, starting the build, rethinking, reconfiguring, continuing, getting to the track laying, and then going through the many days that process takes, and beyond. When the time comes that I have it the way I think it should be, and it is properly wired and ready to go, I do test the rails. I use all my locomotives, run at least one full passenger train, shove forward and reverse. Finally, I test all locomotives at about 80 scale mph. If anything is going to buck or slew and jump over the rails, I want to fix it before I go on to the part of layout construction that I actually enjoy somewhat, the scenery, weathering, and detailing. By then I know my main interest has been achieved.
So, yes, I do very much want, and will take pains to accomplish, trouble-free track. It can be a challenge, especially if the skills need some refinement, or if the track plan has some problems, particularly with geometry that is bordeline for the types of rolling stock one plans on using. But so far, on this current build, I have it working really well, and am now enjoying a slow scenery stage. I can run trains, and they stay railed at any speed.
The way to do that is to prepare good roadbed onto which you place the track elements. It should be free of curves too tight for the rolling stock, and free of irregularites, ridges, humps, dips, corrugations, etc. You need reasonable vertical curves into and out of grades, and they should be longer for the steeper grades. If you superelevate, you must be careful about the transitions at each end. An outer rail on a curve that dips slightly will invite a derailment for the modern six-axle diesels in some cases, for me with the Genesis SD-70/75 series. Been there. You must ensure all r
I run smaller equipment (steam mostly), and can run most of it flawlesly, I have an MDC critter that will go everywhere at slow speed, takes 20 min. to go round my layout at about 7 SMPH. What I am having issue with is larger steam as far as wheel dia. Never a car derailment unless I do something wrong. Also on another note, to go 1 SMPH it would have to only go one real foot in 60 sec, that is slow!!!
Trouble-free trackwork is easy to achieve - just take the time to install the subroadbed, roadbed and track properly the first time.
I know because in my deep dark past my trackwork was terrible. At some point I made the decision to do a new layout right, and found that doing a careful job took maybe 20% more time than doing it sloppily. Now my trackwork is pretty much bulletproof.
It takes surprisingly little more time to do a careful job than to do a sloppy one, so do it careful the first time and save a lot of time and aggravation later!meet all the standards.
My goal was to have track that is good enough to walk away from the throttle and not be afraid of a derailment. I like to watch the trains ‘roam’ the layout while I walk around and watch it move through different scenes. I think I’ve achieved that. I also wanted track that was good enough that when my nieces and nephews goosed the throttle it wouldn’t worry me. Granted, I get nervous when they do that and have tried to teach them not to, but who doesn’t like to see their precious trains running at 100mph?![:O]
I have a high trestle that I am always concerned about because as it is an outer loop over a concrete floor, that’s when I test at high speed (the only time I do that unless I am testing a new engine)
Of all the places to derail, I’ve never had one before or on my trestle(knocks on wood). My trains come out of a 28inch radius turn a few feet before the trestle. The track is flanked by eight inch trees leading up to the trestle so hopefully if it ever does derail it will be corralled by the trees!
Edit: Why is my font so small? I haven’t changed it.
There, that’s better!
My standard is as simple as it is pragmatic. I have a designated derailment checker - a train of cars with long rigid wheelbases (I run four and six wheel wagons) pizza cutter and rhomboid flanges and (the most recent addition) a couple of seriously underweight LL hopper cars. Motive power is either the 0-5-0 (immediately after the track is laid) or D50380 (JNR 2-8-2, tender with one skew-axle truck and very light pilot truck.) If that train can run over newly-laid track at twice normal track speed (which is 70kph, about 42 scale mph) both forward and backward, then that track is cleared for operation. If it derails, the problem is investigated and fixed NOW!
As for super-slow speed, only diesel locomotives with special creeper controls can sustain a smooth speed much under four mph. I’ve never had anything derail at the slowest speed I can run - and very few derailments at prototype track speed. All of the latter were traced to rolling stock defects.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I got a shay that will run at a tie a minute but my steam needs about 15 SMPH to make the whole layout but it can do about 7 on occasion. I am sure they will break in more after time but I just got the mainline compleated!!!
Top speed for a prototype Shay was about 12 MPH, and the pistons were really moving then due to the gearing and small drive wheels. More typical operation was 5-10 MPH. Shays were not considered practical for a daily out and back operation of more than 30 miles each way on the logging/mining lines that used them. Rod locomotives were used for the longer runs.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
not disagreeing, just comenting
Agreed. My expectation for an operating session is that no derailments occur other than those caused by operator error (car accidentally derailed during uncoupling, running through a closed turnout). When breaking in a new locomotive, I will often run it for a few hours in each direction, sometimes with a train but other times not, and have reason to expect everything will stay on the track. Although my layout is operated point-to-point, when connected through the staging yard the mainline makes a full loop, so I can test run without having to monitor too closely.
Mine is a giant dog-bone with a yard at both ends so it can be run point to point or as continuous.