There was a rear end colliosion on 6/20 around 10:30am on Ns’ Fort Wayne Line. It happened at MP PC 39.5 about 26 miles from Conway yard. It seems that the 24V rammed the rear end of a standing 20R. Thank GOD there were no injuries.
Here’s the story
http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14728687&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6
Being that is in Cab Signal territory I can’t help but to wonder how something like that can happen?
wow thanks for the story.even with all the technology in the world there still is no perfect system.
stay safe
Joe
This was about 16 (not 26) miles from Conway and just a couple miles west of my house (I live beside the Ft. Wayne line). All yesterday afternoon into this morning the trains were coming by the house very, very slowly.
Apparently the lead engine of the 24V ended up on top of the last car of the 20R. Yesterday late afternoon or so, I saw a train come by the house with one of those intermodal well cars that has three or five segments. It only had two segments, with the wheels that normally sit between the segments just sticking out of the rear end…I guess that was part of the last car of the 20R.
At least no one was hurt.
I’m glad everyone is OK.
Technology doesn’t always work to prevent this sort of thing. Communication should have been used by the first to prevent this accident.
Pardon me if I am wrong but it sounds like you are blaming the collision on lack of communication on the part of the crew of the train that was hit? I don’t think that can be assumed. I haven’t even heard rumors yet about the cause of the accident, much less the truth, and I doubt you have any more certainty about the facts than I do.
Unless you know something I don’t, there is no cause at this point for you to suggest that either of the crews involved weren’t doing their jobs.
what technology? the signal system? get real. it is painfully clear whos fault it is and no signal system will stop this from happening. the truth is. the engineer was going way to fast and ignored the signals. there is no reason for the first crew to be saying anything on the radio about where he is or what he is doing. the fact is the crew will be fired and if the records are good they will be back in 15-30 days. it is ashame this has to happen
I can’t believe that the engineer was allowed to stay on site and even talk to the media. I thought that any train crew involved in a accident had to take the normal drug/alcohol screening ASAP. To add to that, I would have to think that reps from NS would want to get employees involved in a collision away from the scene/media ASAP to prevent their employees from talking to the media. Big companies don’t like lawsuits & the bad press that can go with those lawsuits. And what about the comment the engineer made to the media about how he should have stayed in Detroit? I’m not familar with the NS crew districts in the area, but Conway it a good distance from Detroit. Makes me wonder if the engineer was working outside of his normal territory & perhaps unfamiliar (note that I didn’t say not qualified) with the territory/area where the accident took place. Of course I say this not knowing anything about the conductor and I’m not the one to try to start any rumors. I just found the post collision scene & engineer comments to be a liitle odd. That’s all
CC
15-30 days? I don’t hardly think so, Wabash, unless they do things far differently down yonder. Six months to a year would be more like it.
NS has a big seniority district for engineers and conductors, Chris30, that takes in all of the former NKP, the former Wabash from Detroit to Tilton, IL, the Southern Tier, and the fomer Conrail from Chicago to Conway, all lines in Michigan, as well as the line from Crestline to Pittsburgh and the old PRR north of Columbus, OH. So, the engineer being from Detroit isn’t at all a stretch.
I’ll leave comments about fault until the investigation is complete.
What I found interesting is that the locomotive road up over the top of the well cars. I wonder if that would have happened with intermodal flats. No doubt speed is a factor, but I have seen wrecks where a piggy back flat has stripped the cab, prime mover, generator and everything else off the floor of the locomotive. In these the crews died in the wrecks.
I this wreck, the engineer might be glad that he will only get fired.
Jay
Several comments on previous posts to this thread:
If this line is cab-signal territory, this is interesting. UP recently had a series of rear-end collisions on its ex-CNW main line (also cab-signal territory), at least one of which was due to improper procedures while the Automatic Train Control was cut out because of actual or perceived malfunctions.
Speed? It wouldn’t take much to cause the damage evident in that photograph.
The engineer’s comment? If the railroad officials weren’t there yet to whisk the crew away for the pee-tests, they weren’t around to keep the media away from the wreck site. Some intrepid reporter will try to get to the crew. Notice that the engineer didn’t say anything about the wreck itself–that was proper procedure. His offhand comment may not help his case in an investigation, though, and suggests a lack of familiarity with the territory.
As for his fate, and that of the conductor, I’m afraid they’re toast, unless some possibility of a false-clear signal indication could be found (possible, but highly improbable). That is about the only thing that could clear the crew of the moving train–otherwise it appears that signals–or operating rules, in the absence of working signals–were disregarded. It may be another case of crew fatigue–that doesn’t exonerate the crew, but certainly adds to the urgency for addressing this issue.
It is mentioned on another site that the word around Conway is that the engineer was not familiar with that section of railroad as he was from another terminal. And that he was running to fast for a restricted signal. I thought you had to be “Qualified” over a district you are running on. Though you would think that the Conductor would have had the situation under control.
I apologize for my comments. I do not have all of the inormation and was making an assumption. I was only guessing to the cause of the accident.
I still believe that technology could could have prevented this accident.
i have a question about your responce…are you on the investigation team? becouse how do you know the engineer down right ignored the signals…thats a mighty big strech to be makeing that kind of statement…when most of the details are not know as of yet… and your statement about the crew saying anything over the radio about what they are doing…now that is just hogwash… calling signals and other forms of radio chatter between trains give us an idea of where someone might be stoped in front of us… trust me…calling singals is the BEST safty thing ANYONE as ever come up with… lets eveyone know excatly where you are!!! train crews and MOW alike…
csx engineer
I will stand by my statement but amend it slightly.
as for signal it was assumed that he was running on restricted siganls as a train was standing infront of him. the in cab signal should show a indication of restricting. and if he was running 20 mph or less the train cab system will not stop the train.
csx i thought you was a good engineer dont fall for the he shoulda woulda coulda. in other words if he lined us in when he got there we wouldnt have hit them or if we would have known where he stopped at we wouldnt have run over them. . a local stopped for a meet with a thru frieght comming up from behind the crew of the thru job ran into the local why? because the local stopped where there was shade not at the end of the pass. the thru job assumed they was at the end of the pass. dont assume anything i been there done that .
It is not a rule to tell someone where you are that is what the signal is for i didnt not say that you dont call signals . i refered to the fact that the first crew was just sitting there they had no reason to tell anyone where they was. if it was so important why didnt the second train ask for a location.
yes 15-30 days the engineer and conductor are back to work here after the same thing. run a stop and hit a train and derailed .
the fact remains if the engineer wasnt familur with the area and if ( key if) the signals was working properly then he wasnt at restricted speed. why didnt the conductor say anything ( my guess) he didnt want to rock the boat. if he was new he may have known where he was but didnt know what it takes to stop a train. CSX engineer do you like someone telling you how to run your train. or does anyone like back seat drivers . this is what was going thru the conductors head.
Now dont get me wrong i feel sorry for the crew but that is why i said it the way i did it is painfully obvious whos fault it is. it coulda been worse just glad it wasnt.
CSX rules require a train stopped on a main track to announce its location every 15 minutes.
Wasn’t it esier to have a flagman and a caboose on the hind end?
Mitch (an old timer)
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1
I will stand by my statement but amend it slightly.
as for signal it was assumed that he was running on restricted siganls as a train was standing infront of him. the in cab signal should show a indication of restricting. and if he was running 20 mph or less the train cab system will not stop the train.
csx i thought you was a good engineer dont fall for the he shoulda woulda coulda. in other words if he lined us in when he got there we wouldnt have hit them or if we would have known where he stopped at we wouldnt have run over them. . a local stopped for a meet with a thru frieght comming up from behind the crew of the thru job ran into the local why? because the local stopped where there was shade not at the end of the pass. the thru job assumed they was at the end of the pass. dont assume anything i been there done that .
It is not a rule to tell someone where you are that is what the signal is for i didnt not say that you dont call signals . i refered to the fact that the first crew was just sitting there they had no reason to tell anyone where they was. if it was so important why didnt the second train ask for a location.
yes 15-30 days the engineer and conductor are back to work here after the same thing. run a stop and hit a train and derailed .
the fact remains if the engineer wasnt familur with the area and if ( key if) the signals was working properly then he wasnt at restricted speed. why didnt the conductor say anything ( my guess) he didnt want to rock the boat. if he was new he may have known where he was but didnt know what it takes to stop a train. CSX engineer do you like someone telling you how to run your train. or does anyone like back seat drivers . this is what was going thru the conductors head.
Now dont get me wrong i feel sorry for the crew but that is why i said it the way i did it is painfully obvious whos fault it is. it
A wise old engineer I knew said, “I think turns into I thought at the investigation.” Wise words to live by.
csx you are right it is pre-mature to go after them and yes it always comes in 2. that is why i tell any conductor on my train i work with what that handle on that side of the cab is for. if i dont comply with rules stop the train. otherwise leave it alone. but look at it another way. ( ive learned this officials do this) they had a crash the other crew was stopped ( we assume they could have been shoving back) train b hit train a. train b was not running restricted speed otherwise he would have been able to stop. if he stopped no crash… only exception to this crash is if he had a clear. ( not likly not enough damage) so the officials will gather evidence to hang the crew.
we as railroaders try to gather evidence that something else happened. you never say it was the crew infront of you fault never blame a brother railroader. i can not think of anything to say or take to investigation that would clear the crew. acutually maybe railroaders on here should try and figure out what they would do in a investigation here. remeber the rule book is to hang you. i just told you what they hang this crew on. and remeber one more thing this engine has a camera onit recording everything with display of track speed horn bell and mic. ( yes every new engine gets a camera ) and you can bet that they are using this to thier advantage. then comes rules class of next year we will see this and get a lecture on it also.
valley x those are words to live by