I used this little level until I downloaded an APP to my phone that is a level and measures grades.
If you’re sure about the trackwork, start checking for truck issues.
- Truck screws that are too tight.
- Wheelsets out of gauge or offset so they aren’t tracking in the same straight line.
- Poor interface between the truck and body bolsters preventing a full range of motion.
- Underbody parts interfering with truck or wheelset movement.
- Truck sideframes out of alignment (i.e. twisted so that journals are not directly across from each other).
- Loco axle bearings unable to move freely.
Derailments are rarely caused by the car as a whole. Replacement of the offending trucks or wheelsets usually cures the problem. If all else has failed for me, I will often install Kadee HGC trucks. They require filing down the body bolster to create a flat bearing surface, and have an insert that places all responsibility for truck motion on the truck itself. I’ve had a few cars that were difficult to tune up that have become reliable thanks to the Kadee trucks.
As for coupler issues, they’re usually simple to fix with some judicious filing or use of graphite lubrication. In only a few cases have I replaced the draft gear. High quality draft gear from someplace like Moloco might do the trick.
With exactly that plan. Or sell them on ebay. After a certain amount of time (in my case a few hours of messing around with the offending car) you reach the point of diminshing returns. It’s just better to smash the car (very theraputic!) or drop it in the trash can or sell it - anything to get it out of your hair! Then move on.
I’ll take some measurements shortly, Kevin. New thread started in Layouts & Layout building.
Thank you, Ed
Yeah, I have to confess that you are right. But like the parable of the lost sheep,I have to find that one loco, that one car, that derails and fix it.
Rich
[bow][bow][bow]
One other thing not mentioned, and I dunno if it’s comparatively rare or if it happens more than most of us realize:
The flanges all have to run line-astern when they enter a turnout and get near the guards. They may be in gauge, but they don’t really line up if you eyeball them from the back…or the front, whichever.
If you invert the loco, and press all the axles in any one truck to the side, you should find that the flanges are very closely in line. Graphically:
<==)(=======)(==>
<=)(=======)(===>
Both axles are the same length, and both wheelsets ARE in gauge, but…well…
I can’t add to all the good tips you’ve already received Rich.
Running exhibition layouts (when there were such things as Train Shows) required bullet proof equipment and I made it a point that none of my stuff was removed due to poor running qualities, in fact I quite like fettling rolling stock.That said I do have one box car that will only run in one direction, don’t ask me why!!
What to do with a recalcitrant piece of rolling stock…
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/228055.aspx?sortorder=desc
Unfortunately Photobucketitius has struck not only on this past thread but is worse on other similar threads.
Cheers, the Bear. [:)]
[/quote]
I couldnt’t tell ya how many times I’ve resorted to this kind of method to solve any number of operational problems. (Spaced out over many years though)
As mentioned further down, smashing a delinquent piece of equipment CAN be very theraputic. But only after all other known possibled cures have been tried. [xx(] Dan
I cannot tell you how much that thought appeals to me.
Rich
Bear, I quite agree. More than once, I have reversed a problematic freight car or passenger car only to achieve immediate success. This tells me that it is likely a truck that is the culprit.
Rich
There was an answer in MR Clinic years ago to a question about a layout where one freight car derailed in the same place constantly.
The answer was that the greater likelihood was that the root problem was in the freight car rather than the trackage.
I remember that well, because it was printed at the same time we were having problems with that one locomotive on the Scale Rails of Southwest Florida HO scale boxcar layout, and it did not help at all!
We checked that turnout with the NMRA gauge over and over again… nothing we could detect.
-Kevin
CASE STUDY: I have two identical Life Like PA/PB consists. One runs perfectly around the entire layout either as a consist, just the PA loco, or the PA/PB pullings a 7-car passenger consist. However the other PA/PB consist cannot make it around the layout in one spot. Every other loco that I own own, steamer, 4-wheel diesel, 6-wheel diesel, has absolutely no problem. So, correct me if I am wrong, but the problem has to be the front truck which is the one that derails. Where do I go from here?
Rich
Check the wheel gauge.
Check for smooth lateral motion of all the axles, three axle trucks need lateral motion.
Remove the shell. Set the loco on a smooth hard surface, steer the trucks feeling for any binding or limitation that seems not right.
Also check that all the wheels are setting on the hard surface.
Flip the loco upside down in your hand. Steer each truck from side to side, tilting it side to side and front to back as uneven track might do. You are looking for any kind of bind or limitation that seems within the required range of motion.
Run the loco with the shell off, watch the gear towers for unusual movement as it goes thru the offending area of track.
Check to make sure drive shafts are not bottoming out in their sockets when the truck turns or moves. A socket may not be all the way on its shaft.
Sheldon
There was a past effort to do an inventory of causes of derailments :
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/264737/3012077.aspx
Simon
UPDATE: I did two things to try and narrow down the problem.
First, I ran the problem PA loco in reverse several times over the section of track in question. No problem. But, it cannot get through without derailing in the forward position.
Second, I took some photos of both PAs. I have to say, it just feels funny to reposition the problem PA when I grasp the truck. Anyhow, here is the good PA front truck.
The top of the truck appears to be level with the bottom of the shell. In the next photo, the problem truck appears to sag toward the front of the loco. Notice the missing part? It fell off during testing, but I doubt that has anything to do with the problem.
I haven’t yet the other tests that Sheldon has suggested, but I will and I will report back. Any thoughts on these photos?
Rich
Is replacing the truck an option here? The Proto 2000 PA has been discontinued for a long time, but are there sources for replacement parts?
Rich
It looks as if the truck pivot point is bent backwards by a very small amount.
If you take the shell off and observe the motion of the truck does it pivot true? It does the nose of the truck dip down as it passes across straight ahead when turned for its full range?
Any chance the locomotive took a nose dive onto the floor?
Did it ever run right for you?
Rich, you may have a warped truck frame, I may have spare. I have five powered Proto PA’s and some spare parts.
It does look to me like the loco with the problem is not sitting correctly on the truck bolster, but it could just be the camera angle.
Also, how old are these? Blue boxes or silver boxes? I don’t know how much if any Walthers changed them when they released the silver box versions.
Older LifeLike production versions can be found on Ebay, usually NOS, at reasonable prices.
I will check out what I have.
Sheldon
I purchased both of these locos on eBay new, or more precisely New Old Stock, about four years ago. These are blue box models. Here is a summary of each.
Life-Like Products
PROTO 2000 PA Locomotive – ATSF #73 w/mars light & dynamic brakes
Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe
Walthers Part # 433-21569.
Life-Like Products
PROTO 2000 PA Locomotive – ATSF #70 w/mars light & dynamic brakes
Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe
Walthers Part # 433-21568
Rich