Red Green

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Our city has two long viaducts, that go over the BNSF yard. It’s made up of remnents of Great Northern,Milwaukee Road,Illinois Central, Rock Island, and Chicago Northwestern (CM&O actually). From the viaducts, I’m able to see lots of switchstands. They seem to be of 3 varieties, as far as the red/green/yellow little signboards on them. Some are made to show green or yellow, some show green or red, and some show red or nothing. What is the meaning of each variety? I should mention, that some of the switches seem to lead to the same type of sidings, but have different color sign boards.

-Thanks

2

On a main track switch, the stand should show green when lined for the main, and red when lined for the diverging route.

In a yard, or off the main track, green and yellow are often used.

Sometimes red and no target are used, on a non-mainline switch. The no-target would be the normal lining.

3

This might vary from RR to RR, but the green would ordinarily apply when the switch is lined for the “normal” route. The yellow would face oncomming trafic from the facing point end of the switch while the red would face traffic comming from the trailing point end when the switch was thrown against the normal route.

4

Practices vary. But for my company…

Green/Red - used on main line switches. Green - normal; Red - diverging.
Green/Yellow - used on yard switches. Green - normal; Yellow - diverging.

Others I have seen…

White/Red: White - normal; Red - diverging.
White/Yellow (really hard to see): White - normal; Red - diverging.
No/Red: No target - normal; Red - diverging.

Targets are nice, but I still teach newbies not to rely on targets to determine switch postion. They can be missing or installed wrong. Those darn kids.

Nick

5

I’m very used to the white/yellow for yard switches here. 'Twas better when our electric switch indicators had lunar lenses instead of clear ones for the normal indication. I was told that they were changed to clear lenses when someone from FRA thought that the lunar could be too easily mistaken for blue (which means a whole 'nother thing), When our hand-throw switches were still equipped with kerosene markers, the metal around the lenses were yellow and white, with the lenses themselves being amber and lunar.

The main-line switches are green/red,; the spring switch has a white “SS” target.

6

I’m not sure I understand what the targets are.

The switches I was looking at were in the yard, mostly leading to different sidings. I was trying to determine if the yellow/green signs were indicative of left/right, but there seemed to be no rhyme or reason to that. The normal/diverging idea makes more sense. In a situation where one siding track splits evenly into two, so there is no normal track, is there a way for the engineer to know where he’s headed, short of stopping and looking at the tracks?

7

If the “sign” is attached to the switch-changing mechanism (and changes with the position of the switch), it’s the target. Where I work there are signs that give the switch number, plus the targets, but that’s not all that common.

As has already been mentioned, looking at the switch itself is the ultimate assurance that it’s where you want it. Even when throwing a switch, the crewman doing so will actually look at the switch to make sure everything went correctly this time.

I can remember kerosene-lit switch targets in my old home town. They weren’t in a yard either - just along the line. That meant that someone was responsible for periodically servicing them…

Here’s a switch set for reversed, along with its switch target…

8

It’s obvious I need to go back and look a little closer, now that I know what I’m looking for. Your comment about looking at the switch itself-are you refering to which way the handle on the switch points, in reference to how the switch is lined, or are speaking of looking down at the rails themselves?

9

One is supposed to examine the points before (checking for obstructions) and after (to assure that the points are lined properly.

As has been mentioned before, don’t depend on the targets, especially when you can see the points.

10

What the operating department calls normally lined and what the track department calls normally lined are two different animals. Was always fun to watch a newbie switchman or supervisor find his way around in a major yard trying to rely on targets for direction. Lots of oops on a split lead when you discover you can’t get “there” from “here”. OH the stories![:D]

11

Also gets fun when MOW installs the target incorrectly. Heard a story…

Train pulling into yard, going down the lead. All targets are green. Conductor dropped off aways back. Makes the cut, pulls ahead.

“Kick 'em”

“I said Kick 'em”

" I am!"

“Then stop. Not moving back here.”

They had run through a switch, then tried kicking and made a fairly substantial mess. MOW guy in charge was sacked from that RR.

12

I will take a stab at it…

Murphy…

On a main line, you would expect the switch to be lined for the main…the “normal” route of travel.

If it wasn’t, then it would be considered lined for a “diverging” route, one that diverges from the route usually “normally” taken.

In a yard, the normal route would be straight down a lead…diverging would be into any of the switching tracks.

Looking at the first photo, the switches just in front of the UP train are lined for a diverging movement, off the lead and into the track he is shoving back in.

The targets are the yellow rectangles on top of the switch.

Yellow with black track numbers on them is for diverging, and none is displayed for normal, or straight as this is a switching lead.

This is where I work…if I was standing at the far left next to the lead, and looking down the lead, all I have to do is look for a yellow target, count how many switches away from me it is, and I know which track it is lined for…no targets means it is lined for the very last or most far away from me track.

The second photo shows where two main leads split…yellow target means lined for a diverging route, away from the main lead, green means lined for normal movement, using the lead.

The tall switch has only on target, yellow, and it is used to tell which lead you are going to.

If it was lined for something other than normal, it would show a yellow target with a track number on it, to tell the engineer he is moving from one “main” lead to another.

The short switch shows yellow, meaning it is lined to diverge off that lead, in this instance it is one end of a crossover.

If it was a green target, it would tell you that the switch is lined to continue straight.

Main line targets often use only a red target…no target means the switch is lined for the main, red means…if your facing the switch points, the switch is lined for movemen

13

Ed-thanks for the detailed(as always[8D]) explanation. From the cab, can the engineer see how the switch is lined, by looking at the track, or can he only tell by the position of the target?

On a similar thought line: There were 3 big bombers in town today, 2 6-axle BNSF pumpkins, and a 6-axle CSX unit. They were pushing around a bunch of grain hoppers,assembling an outgoing unit train. I didn’t catch exactly what they were doing, as it’s springtime at work, and I have to actually work for a living again. In a situation like this, would someone from the local crew ride along to assist the out of town crew in switching?

14

Yes, the engineer can see the target, and from that high, the switch points also, which is what you look at when you get closer.

If the switch is a safety switch, one with a clutch type drive, and someone runs through it from the other way and flops it, the switch will be lined for the diverging route but the target might not show that, so the first time you use the switch, you check and make sure the target and the switch position are correct.

Your local guys might be the crew on the grain train…we assemble grain trains and unit coke trains all the time, then hand them off to the UP or BN crews at our North Yard.

If not, then unless they requested a pilot, the foreign crew most likely are doing the work.

15

Hmmm…I thought this was going to be a thread about Possum Lodge. O well, keep your stick on the ice !! [:D][swg][(-D]

16

Yee haw! I bet a local crew that usually works on old, worn geeps likes to use some of that new equipment.[:P]

I like your phrase “foreign crew”[(-D]. But then, I suppose the procedures are fairly universal. “Spechen de railroad?..over…”[:o)]

17

We are men…

But we can change…

If we have to…

I guess.

18

We’ve got a set of mainline hand throw crossovers in Portsmouth Ohio (NS) with red and white targets.

It is a signaled mainline track,but it’s still good to check them out when looking ahead.Red is lined wrong,white is lined right.

19

Murphy,

From the front steps of our locomotive.

You can see the switch points directly in front, the near one is the end of a crossover, the next one, (yellow) is a lead switch.

Directly ahead is the “normal” route.

The second switch is lined for a diverging route, in this case, the other switching lead.

What mudchicken referred to as a split lead…in this case, the 107 lead straight ahead, and the 108 lead to the right.

Looking down to the right, I can tell that lead is lined for track 40…straight ahead, the center lead is lined for track 39 and on the left, the lead is lined for track 31 and track 32.

Because we line these switches many, many times a day, if there was a problem, we would know already, so I can trust what the target tells me, as we have been kicking cars in there all day long.

These are two types of yard switches…note the switches that go from one lead to another have both green and yellow targets, but the switches that lead into yard tracks have only one color, yellow, or no display at all.

The photo is shot pretty much where I stand and pull pins, so I can tell at a glance what track we are lined up for.

The center switch, that displays the yellow, is one I line at least 200 times a day.