Based on some other recent discussions on these forums, I decided to bite the bullet and redesign part of my HO layout to 36" minimum radius.
I can’t redesign the return loops at each end of the folded dogbone, but I can improve some of the curves in between, and add a nice long radius curved turnout or two. This will give me a true point to point layout within the dogbone for those larger engines that do not really like the tighter curves.
Briefly, I’ve seen two steam engines lately that had valve gear holes at the pins worn egg shaped (by other owners). When I watch the performance of some engines on curves at low speed, I can see how the lateral motion of the drivers kind of kinks the valve gear sections (relative to each other) as the engines run around a curve. Over a long period of time, operation on tight radii (and/or inadequate lubrication) might result in increased valve gear wear. So to minimize the chance of that, I will fix what I can fix to increase some of my curves to the larger standard.
Some do this for appearance, my choice is more for mechanical durability and to reduce any binding.
Thank you Sheldon, specifically, for your comments.
Assuming the OP speaks of HO, 36" is a great decision. when I decided to rebuild, I decided to go with 30" absolute minimum, and I don’t think it’s enough for mainline steam and super liners. I have one outside curve that’s a layout focal point and I hate it. I wish I had done 36".
I had some 36" curves on a previous layout and IMO, for long cars such as autoracks, they still don’t look good on that radius. I remember thinking 36" will surely give a decent appearance and then ran my Walthers autoracks and it still looked very sharp.
A difference of going from 30 to 36 inches won’t make much difference in appearnce for long cars. You’ll need to go up a lot more to get a much improved appearance of long cars. I was at a train show in Liousville KY and there was a long string of Autoracks going around the corner of a modular layout and they looked pretty nice on that curve; I asked one of the guys running the layout what radius the curves were on the corner and he guessed in the 50’s (inches).
Now if 30" is causing operational troubles, sure, 36 inches may make “all” the difference. I’ve gone with 32-inches as a reasonable curve radius which should allow good operability of long cars and engines and incorporated a 54" cosmetic curve (per John Armstrongs track planning book recommendation) so that there is a curve where long cars still look good on.
To save basement right-of-way (for the kids, etc.) I originally used Kato 26.375" radius sectional track, with 28.75" radius “easement” sections at the beginning and end of every curve, when the folded dogbone was originally built.
I cannot relay the return loops because there is a mountain with two tunnels cutting across one of them to create 2 separate scenes on either side (fall and winter), and the other one has a desert hillside that would have to be destroyed, and even then the table top (which is 2" pink insulation foam) is not big enough for a much larger loop.
So I view the loops and overall layout area as pretty much set, but I will be happy if I can at least run larger steamers from a point to a point on the layout.
Last night I tore up one portion of track along the long wall of the room and the curves at each end, as I just ordered some Shinohara 36" radius sectional track that was on sale (I dislike cutting flextrack and dealing with the uneven joints you sometimes get).
Kato says to just use cork roadbed to transition up to tie into their sectional track and to just use regular rail joiners, and I don’t think that will be much of a problem for me. So I will be leaving the (glued down with Liquid Nails) Kato return loops in place and essentially replacing all other track in between, because it will have to move in order for me to add a little interior trackage (inside the big open spaces associated with the loops and/or approaches to them).
I had a very sparse track plan as it was…now it will get a little bit more cluttered but still will not be a “spaghetti bowl”.
This is not to eliminate a particular “operational problem” per se, but to minimize the chording of sectional locomotive rods on curves and any associated minimal binding of the rods with the pins–so as to not prematurely wear out a couple new but expensive steamers th
I’ve never looked into Shinohara sectional track and didn’t actually know they offered it. I did look into Kato HO Unitrack for a temporary test track look and IIRC, they only go up to 31-inch radius curve sections. I used the 28.75" sections for my test track and noticed how close the edges of the 89’ cars came to touching on those curves although I think they are supposed to be good for 24" radius, some maybe even 22".
In my younger days the idea of cutting track put me off of buying and using flex track, but once I got my Demel with a cut off disc and started trimming rail on my first garage layout back in 1989, I found it was very liberating to be able to custom design any curve that I engineered for my layout at or above my minimum radius. Uneven joints are no issue since I cut the rail that sticks out even with the other. I had a mental block before that but once I tried it I found it was actually pretty easy to do and never looked back.
Since then I have taken to trimming turnouts as well, to get my yard the way I want it. I suppose thats probably how “Fast Tracks” people feel once they make that leap; although I haven’t gone that far yet! [:D]
Anyway, there are certainly a lot more options with the sectional track available these days which is a big help for those who haven’t made the leap to flex track.
Eventually you probably will re do it, in the best “tear down and rebuild” tradition of
PRR8259
I just ordered some Shinohara 36" radius sectional track that was on sale (I dislike cutting flextrack and dealing with the uneven joints you sometimes get).
I’ve never looked into Shinohara sectional track and didn’t actually know they offered it. I did look into Kato HO Unitrack for a temporary test track look and IIRC, they only go up to 31-inch radius curve sections. I used the 28.75" sections for my test track and noticed how close the edges of the 89’ cars came to touching on those curves although I think they are supposed to be good for 24" radius, some maybe even 22".
In my younger days the idea of cutting track put me off of buying and using flex track, but once I got my Demel with a cut off disc and started trimming rail on my first garage layout back in 1989, I found it was very liberating to be able to custom design any curve that I engineered for my layout at or above my minimum radius. Uneven joints are no issue since I cut the rail that sticks out even with the other. I had a mental block before that but once I tried it I found it was actually pretty easy to do and never looked back.
Since then I have taken to trimming turnouts as well, to get my yard the way I want it. I suppose thats probably how “Fast Tracks” people feel once they make that leap; although I haven’t gone that far yet!
Anyway, there are certainly a lot more options with the sectional track available these days which is a big help for those who haven’t made the leap to flex track.
If it were up to me I’d actually remove the one mountain entirely and re
I admire those who choose to hand lay their track, but the track maybe not so much, unless it’s the proto87 stuff, with full spike and tieplate detail. The same free-flowing curves can be had with flextrack, with the added bonus of moulded-on detail, albeit not as finely rendered.
I’ve done hand laid turnouts, some of which wouldn’t have been commercially available, and while they performed very well, still lacked the niceties of detail mentioned.
On the latest extension of my main line, I’ve used Central Valley tie strips and will be building some turnouts using their ties, too. The detail is good, and the tie strips are even more flexible than flextrack.
We’re fortunate nowadays to have so many options available. [:D]
I have a friend who hand-laid his track and turnouts. He is a truck driver whose route took him weekly near The Caboose, so he developed a bad brass habit. He was always telling me to “step up to the brass and just use the plastic” to pay for it. He charged over $30,000 in HO brass and never fully paid off his credit cards, then developed a bad Harley Davidson habit, too.
In any case, Walter never constructed more than about 15’ of tangent layout. He beautifully glue laminated the wood strips for his table top (I don’t know why anyone would ever do that). He ballasted his track to a sharp perfect knife edge, and yes, did hand-lay a couple turnouts that operate just fine. He had grandiose plans for a helix and multi-level layout…that was never finished. Literally, if you go to his house today, the same 15’ of “completed” layout is there (he won’t scenic his beautiful glue laminated wood top, beyond the perfect ballast lines). You could almost support a battleship on his benchwork.
He is sitting on a mountain of old Ulrich and Silver Streak, etc. wood freight car kits, that he thinks he’ll never get out of what he paid for them. He has enough for what must have been dealer inventory at one time. Some perhaps misguided dealers convinced him of the superiority of those old wood and metal kits (at least to fatten their bottom line).
I tore up more track last night and associated scenic details in an hour than Walter H. ever built, lol.
Alas, he sold off Key Imports/Samhongsa brass that would be worth much more now than he ever paid for it, and unfortunately retains some Tenshodo stuff that is…not of high value though the paint jobs are nice…growler brass diesels with most incorrect nose contours.
I would have to totally lose my mind first, which is certainly possible [:-,] [D)]
Sounds like the American way; “I owe, I owe, so off to work I go”!
Perhaps one day that collection will show up at Timonium at a table. That seems to be the source of a great deal of the stuff there in the past few years - collections of kits that people never think they’ll get out of them what they paid and they never get built. I’ve been selling off most of what I realized I will never build so at least I can use the cash.
Sounds like Walter is beyond hope but if he is happy … At least you are getting in there and making somehing happen! [dinner]
I’ll be very happy to get some big curves in on at least one part of the layout. The trick is to not ruin the visual effect…but my son actually has a slot car racetrack elevated above the desert scenery on wood blocks in one return loop, anyway, so part of it is rather toylike such that I won’t really be “ruining” anything if I put a modest ladder track inside a loop.