I would think that anyone getting into any kind of business would have a knowledge of that business; would have researched that business; or employed people who know about that business and paid them well and paid attention to what they say. However, too many investors jump into something knowing only that there should be a huge ROI. I’ve seen doctors, dentists, lawyers, and investment bankers get into broadcasting, canoe building, high end audio equipment, battery manufacturing, restaruants, retail sales, and a few other things. The things all these men and women had in common were: they had lots of money, they wanted lots more money, they didn’t want to do any work; they wouldn’t listen to the professionals that came with the businesses as to what was done and why; most of them went bankrupt or otherwise lost thier investment taking in less money than their predecessors or selling out for less than they bought it for. Only one sold for more than he paid but never earned money on operating.
So, if a JBH, or any other trucker, gets into refrigerated trucking, there is a 90+% chance it will succeed and a 100% chance will get out of it before they go bankrupt trying. If somebody who just sees the chance to make a buck and doesn’t prepare, invest, and learn and adjust quickly, then the chance of success is probably less than 10%.
There is a LONG RUNNING JOKE IN THE OTR INDUSTRY. How do you make a million in Trucking Start WITH 2 MILLION. 90% of the carriers that start fail in the first 5 years. That is because Trucking is a CUTTHROAT INDUSTRY. YOU HAD BETTER BE ABLE TO DO IT FOR A PENNY LESS A MILE THAN THE NEXT CARRIER OR YOUR GONE. Reefers are even worse. Lose a load of Ice Cream your out a Quarter of a MILLION. A New Reefer Trailer is 40K Unit for it is another 50K then a CARB Certified Tractor is another 150K . Your at 250K BEFORE YOU TURN A WHEEL.
I’ve heard that line in the broadcasting industry and others, too. But you underscore the fact that one better not just be in it because they think its a peachy keen investment but rather they better really know the business.
Yep and anymore JBH is NOT the ones that KNOW IT as well as they used to. See anymore they hire kids out of SCHOOL THAT ALL THEY HAVE DONE IS BOOK LEARNING. THEY HAVE NEVER RUN A WHEEL AND THEY ARE HAVING TROUBLE. See that is why Marten and Schiender and MY last carrier will survive and THRIVE see they only promote older drivers to higher positions and THEY REQUIRE ALL DISPATCHERS TO TAKE A 2 week trip with a driver 2 times a year. Guess what it reminds them why the DRIVER IS THE FRONT LINE.
No, they still have reefer accounts. Also, I don’t think they’ll have to depend on drivers exclusivly to maintain the temp. They will be able to monitor and adjust as needed via satellite & cell networks from the home office in Lowell AR.
They’re supposed to have 100 gal fuel tanks. Anybody know how long a reefer will run on that much fuel?
FYI Fuel Consumption. Depends on many many factors. Lettuce in an Az summer 2 gallons an hour if you don’t want melted lettuce(seen it happen to someone else)
Protect from temp extremes (chemicals any variety of other stuff that needs to be kept at roughly room temperature) 2 Gal @ day in moderate temps (if you’ve set your unit correctly).
The newer Carrier & Thermo King units do much better on fuel than units from the 80’s. They can be programmed dependent on what a particular shipper needs.
The thing that makes the units work well is how well the unit can control the temp. The current generation of units have sensors that keep an eye on the ambient temperature(outside air ). And adjust there operation accordingly.
I’m kind of rambling here as last week was a looong week. Chi to MN to Louisiana to Laredo and now on its Monday and I’m in Wi. The Northbound load had a messed up trailer. It came out of Mexico with no lites. Then the unit shutdown yesterday with a clogged fuel screen. And then today the trailer blew a tyre 5 miles from the receiver in front of a Wi State Police Car. Life is fun, Life is fun.
"… My big concern is dovetailing refrigerated product handling into the skill set of driver’s w ho are primarily used to the dry freight side of how things are done…
…I know training within the driver pool will be a Corporate challenge, truck drivers sometimes can be pretty resistant to change their ideas of how things shoud be done…"
Greyhounds: I would not to pretend to speak to the appropriate equipment used in the Rail transport side of this refrigerated type of service. I see both refrigerated trailers and reefer containers on the BNSF out here, I never see the net results of the product arrival after the rail transport segment these days.
My experience was dealing with the drivers at conventional trucking operations, and within the recuitment and safety aspects of the same.
Ed Benton is right in all he states, I would suggest that the driver aspect will boil down to training, and more training in the aspects of handling refrigerated products. Each one has its own requirements for handling to achieve good product quality at destination.
The next major hurdle to overcome is the driver personel issues. Recruiting of drivers is an area of personel management that has its own set of challenges , a good recruiter must be smewhat of a Svengali and have the sociological understanding of Dr. Ruth with a combination of understanding and patience of a Saint.
First of all, most driver’s are always willing to entertain a potential job change to a new carrier, particularly if that new carrier has a BIG Chrome-Heavy/big sleeper compartment, tractor with an engine approaching the size of a locomotive diesel. That is what the new trucker wants( one with not a lot of road experience). The more seasoned driver is looking for fairly new tractor, preferably an assigned unit, and BENEFITS. They have realized that ‘chrome and big motors’ can potentially cost THEM wages in the long run. The new guy is still locked up in braggin and ego. Not to mention the ultimate drivers come back to a recruiter " If I had wanted to drive for…, I’d already be working for them."
Companies like Hunt offer a driver, plenty of work, wage stability, and a reasonable benefit package, but there are trade-offs for
PDNJr – thanks for the JBHunt web-site reference. Cool/chilly/cold/whatever! I didn’t think Mrs. Hunt was in the business to lose money. Since seeing my first icecoldexpress 53’ers come thru town last week, I’ll be more observant for other refrigerated containers. I don’t think I would have noticed those if Amtrak hadn’t stabbed the train.
A couple of comments based on my past industry experience:
When talking about driver-related issues, keep in mind this is an intermodal service. Drivers will be doing local or regional pick-up and delivery only. Yes, they still need to be well-educated on all aspects of loading, handling, temperature settings, etc., but you shouldn’t need as many of them as for a comparable over-the-road service, since one driver may be able to handle multiple loads per day. Also, this type of work promises somewhat regular hours. In fact, drivers may even be able to count on sleeping in their own bed most nights. I know that Hunt doesn’t have the reputation of having the best drivers in the industry, but If wonder if for this particular service they might be able to effectively poach good drivers from long-haul over-the-road reefer carriers who would prefer to stay closer to home?
I believe at least part of the problem with KLLM and other earlier container reefer services was the weight and cube issue. Ten years ago, if not today, a stackable container plus chassis weighed more than a trailer. In many cases, the reduced lading weight due to the higher tare offset enough of the intermodal savings to make containers unappealing. Plus, if the container wasn’t as wide all the way through as a triailer, you might have to change the loading configuration. Some traffic managers don’t like having their load profiles messed with, or managing too many multiples. Does anyone know the tare weight of Hunt’s new reefer containers (plus chassis)? Also, how does the interior cube space compare with an over-the-road trailer? I know they have enough experienced intermodal people in their management that it’s unlikely they overlooked this.
One poster made the statement that “they’ll still have to rely on the railroads to check them.”&
Even WITH Remote Montoring that UNIT BREAKS DOWN IN THE DESERT WITH A FROZEN LOAD YOUR SCREWED, Why by the time you get the message to the RR to stop the train so a Maintance guy can look at this container your done. You also mentioned Tare weight. IT WILL STILL BE HEAVIER There is NO WAY TO MAKE A SEPARATE CONTAINER AND CHASSIS LIGHTER THAT WILL HOLD UP TO RR SERVICE THAT IS STACKABLE. Shippers pay you in Reefers normally by how much you can STUFF ON THERE so if can only haul 43K say while the carrier next to you can haul 46K guess who will get the LOAD. Sorry my last carrier FIRED OWNER OPS FOR TRUCKS THAT WERE TO HEAVY INCLUDING THE 1ST DRIVER EVER AT THE COMPANY. Their contract stated that their truck could weigh NO MORE than 17500 FULL OF FUEL. HIS EMPTY WEIGHED IN AT 18000. You want to KNOW WHO JB’S LAST REEFER LOADS ARE FOR I can tell you I asked a local Jb Driver I am Friends with Coors BEER THATS IT. They service the VA Brewery on a DEDICATED CONTRACT FOR THEM ONE TEMP UNITS TURN ON AND THAT IS IT. I Told him about the new Reefer containers he is in the Intermodal and he goes OH CRAP something ELSE FOR THEM TO SCREW UP. This is coming from one of their Drivers.
JB Hunt Tried Flatbed in the 90’s and FAILED BIG TIME TO THE POINT IT ALMOST COLLASPED THE ENTIRE COMPANY. They Spun them off to avoid killing the VAN SIDE. I give this less than a year before it FOLDS for one reason they DO NOT KNOW THIS SIDE OF THE INDUSTRY. Produce and Fresh Meat or even Prepared Meat is a Differant ANIMAL than something that requires TEMP CONTROL. IF YOU GET IT TO HOT with the NEW USDA Regs in the Pipeline and someone gets sick IT IS NOT THE GROWER OR MANUFACTOR THAT GETS HIT IT IS THE CARRIER that HAULED IT.
I will point out that although the container/chassis combination will weigh more than a trailer, the tractors used for intermodal service can weigh less. For starters, they don’t need to carry as much fuel, which is heavy, and they can be day cabs instead of sleepers.
The gross weight limit is 80,000 pounds. Using a container/chassis combo eats of more of that in tare than a trailer, but you can get weight back by using a lighter tractor than over the road operations.
We had International 8600s at 15,100 pounds full of fuel without even trying hard to spec 'em out for light weight.
With were these Containers are going to have to go for Pick ups for Produce and with CVSA 2010 coming INTO EFFECT SLEEPERS WILL BE NEEDED. Here are the locations of Oscar Myer Plants in the Midwest DC in Aurora Plants in Madison WI Davenport IA Columbia MO another in MO 3 in Up State NY DC in PA plant in Fullerton CA DC in City of INdustry CA and Ontario CA and Stockton CA and I know I am missing a few. So your a JB Hunt Reefer Divison Driver you come on duty at 0700 in Chicagowith a load for 0900 Aurora DC YOUR 14 HOUR CLOCK IS RUNNING RIGHT THEN. Make Delivery then are Dispatched to PICK UP IN MADISON 3 Hours away. You have 10 hours drive and 12 hours on your 14 Not an issue however your Container needs a Washout Stop get it cleaned out loose an hour Get to Madison Your load is not ready 5 hour delay AND IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. Down to 6 hours left on your 14 and you have a 4 hour drive back to Chicago. You can not Stop your clock since you DO NOT HAVE A SLEEPER AT ALL. Check bak after 4 hours Find out Meat for Production was DELAYED load will be another 4 hours late BETTER GET A HOTEL FOR THE NIGHT NO WAY CAN YOU LEGALLY GET BACK TO TERMINAL. Thius is what can happen on the outbound side hauling anything reefer.
That and JB FORGETS ONE THING ALL PRODUCE MOVES IN CALI IN THE SUMMER IT IS IN THE NORTH FALL AND WINTER IT COMES OUT OF YUMA. So they need to realize that hauling CANS WILL NOT WORK. See that is WHAT KILLED THE ICE the Drayage when your hauling trailers 400 miles all over the state geting them loaded your eating your Profit margins. Best to haul a load close to were your going to then head to the Produce houses. Between April to about Late September Salinsas is WERE YOUR HAULING VEGGIES FROM. Late September your around Bakersfield area for a month then it is YUMA til April. I did it for 3 years I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. I never had a cargo claim heck I h
Am I reading here that old fashioned block iced refrigerator cars were more efficient and safer for the product than mechanical refrigeration? That we should go back to icing stations? I find it hard to believe that today’s technology is so bad and deficient that nobody can successfully operate it nor get through the desert without it breaking down!
Yep, that 14-hour rule makes life very interesting, especially with tight deadlines. Just squeaked one in last week, getting out of Sam Adams in Cincy and going to our Hamilton yard, because one would be taking his life into one’s own hands sleeping next to the brewery. Electronic logs may take this option away, though. (no cheating!)
With the exception of keg beer, Coors does not need to be refrigerated anymore, ran a load down to Knoxville last friday in a dry van. Agree on IH trucks being very heavy, along with certain KWs (my T2000 with a 53’ Great Dane dry van is about 33,400 with full tanks, we have T660s that are about 1500lbs lighter)
The next two years will be interesting times in the trucking industry…
From what I’ve heard…the JB reefer containers will be for a dedicated account. They’ll be circulating in closed loops between certain shippers & certain recivers. They won’t be available for the general reefer market. If the project goes well, then in a year or two they may buy additional containers the general market. Or they may just keep it as a dedicated contract service.
The three trucking companies i see here riding NS rails are Lisa motor lines/Stevens transport and FEE all reefer trailers and they are others as well,when i go out watching again will try to remember the names.Back in the day when Carolina Freight was around they had a few reefers and seen a many rideing piggyback on Seaboard Coast Line.
A very interesting discussion. It sounds like a real breakthrough with a chance to get a lot of the long haul off the roads. I take it this truly will be intermodal, with most of the haul on the rails, and short road hauls from the end hubs? How short, ideally?
IN Ca your looking at a MINIMUM of 200 MILES from the Yards to the reload POINTS not to mention the Customers for the OUTBOUND LOADS. It was nothing to use a FULL DAY UNLOADING AND LOADING IN CALIFORNIA WITH PRODUCE. If your going to Oregon or Washington EVEN WORSE. That stuff is Grown in the Yakima Valley in Washington Closest Container Yard is Seatlle 350 MILES AWAY Portland is about 300 miles from the Fruit and Nursery areas of Oregon. So NOT HAVING A SLEEPER ON THE TRUCKS IS NOT A OPTION. If your Unload in the LA Basin and your Reload is in Yuma 600 MILE ROUND TRIP. THIS PLAN IS NOT GOING TO WORK. PUT IT THIS WAY I STAND A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING MY CDL BACK WITH EPILEPSY THAT JB HUNT MAKING THIS WORK. Were the stuff ships from changes way to often in the year. Even were Strawberries changes for the winter from Oxnard to up by Salinas. Anyway you cut it they are SCREWED worse than Steam was when the FT came into Production in 1940.
That sounds like a sensible approach to entering the market.
One “report” I read was that they were acquiring 2,500 reefer containers. This would be about a $125 million investment. It seems a little drastic for a first step and I question its credibility. Better to get your feet wet in shallow water and not take too much of a risk.
A hope is that JB Hunt will be successful and that other carriers will also begin to acquire equipment for intermodal temperature controlled services in order to compete with JB. Some reefer carriers do buy “Rail Spec” trailers now. But double stack has a tremendous cost advantage over TOFC on the long haul west coast routes.