It is time to remotor my Sierra 2-6-6-2 United from PFM. Can any one give me a parts list and tool list. I have contacted NWS but have not recieved and answer yet. I will need to start with new gears on the axels, new gear boxes, a can motor and a DCC sound chip. If some of you have done this, I could really use your expertice.
Art–
Have you checked the NWSL website, or tried one of their catalogues at a nearby LHS? From what I’ve seen, they really seem to be the only ones who have what you’re looking for, because of that very unusual PFM double-gear they use in their articulateds. I know this from experience, as I was thinking of remotoring my PFM L-131 2-8-8-2 some years back. After looking at what it entailed (and my own lack of skills at changing out driver gears) I finally just put my original PFM motor through a good cleaning with alcohol and contact spray and installed Tomar pickup shoes on the loco and tender. Runs like a charm, now. Of course, I’m strictly DC, so if you’re DCC, this information may not be of any use to you.
But from what I’ve seen, NWSL is really going to be your best bet. If I remember correctly, their catalogue is very complete about adapting various PFM locos to their gearboxes. However I know for sure you’ll need a gear-puller and possibly a re-quartering tool, and if I remember correctly, those puppies are NOT inexpensive. I think NWSL’s quartering jig runs about $80 or so.
Best of luck, though. Between you and me, I wish PFM had designed their motor-reduction gears differently to begin with.
Tom [B)]
Thank you Tom. You are probably right. YET, I wonder if anyone has done this upgrade and has a list of parts or the tools needed.
Art,
I have one in pieces that I am working on right now. Be patient and wait for NWSL to respond. THey know a lot about this particular remotor/regear project. I would suggest calling them. They can fix you up in ten minutes on the phone with all the right stuff. I presume that the running gear and the rest of the loco is in good shape???
There are a couple of decisions you will have to make. This loco suffers from a very noisy drive train. To solve this you can install a new Hi Lo drive train or you can try to replace some of the original gears in the factory drive with delrin gears. I opted for the latter because I didn’t want to pull the drivers apart to press new axle gears. From my understanding the Hi lo is the better choice here if you have the nerve to press new axle gears. If the option I chose runs super noisy, I will be pressing axle gears. I agree with Tom in regards to this drive train design. FWIW: All my train buddies who know brass are saying I’ll end up with the hi lo eventually.
The second issue is the new motor size. I was given the option of choosing between two motors (at least) that will fit. I chose the larger of the two because I wanted the most torque that I could get. The thing barely fits in the shell. The smaller motor might be an easier install.
For sound decoders I reccommend the micro Tsunami. While the tender looks big, the full size Tsunami is a very tight fit when you include a decent speaker enclosure. Holes will have to be drilled in the tender floor for sound. Be carefull not to warp the floor in anyway during this process. I was careless with a Westside #24 during a drilling session and am still bending the floor back to square. I have Tonys large oval speaker (1") and its enclosure for sound install.
Parts#:
Motor - 18336-9
Gears: 8020, 8030
My su
FYI there is an article on repowering old brass locos in the Feb 08 MR.
-George
How did the NWSL delrin gears work out?
Can anyone recommend a talented individual who will do the NWSL Hi Lo conversion on the Sierra 2-6-6-2?
Thanks, Paul Mc
The more I researched, the more difficult it seemed. Without the hilo gears, it may be a waste of time. I still have not solved the issue with the lost tooth on the axel gear. The motors were out of stock. I decided to work on other things instead. Some day, but not today. I am still looking for good advice however.
I know this won’t help much but I had a fellow re-motor my Sierra when he painted it 20 years ago. He ended up putting a rubber band drive in it [:O] Well, not really a rubber band but a O ring drive. It is smooth, quite and not too fast. But I do not have the parts list, nor does he. He just sort of winged it to get it all to work. He included a flywheel on the motor as well.
Best of luck on this, its a sweet logging locomotive for sure. Mine is done for Rayonier 38 rather than Sierra.
I’ve got three PFM articulateds, which I like VERY much–2 L-131 2-8-8-2’s and a Moffat Road 2-6-6-0, and I’ve never really understood exactly why the Japanese mfgr chose to incorporate that particular double-gearing system. At the same time these were being made, Westside was importing articulateds with a reduction enclosed gear-tower that is a much quieter mechanism. And of course, Akane articulateds had no reduction at all, with the motor lying flat and connecting directly to the driver mechanism–which makes them prime candidates for can motors and good slow-speed control.
I suppose some day when I have both the money and the time, I’ll order in the NWSL replacement gears and reduction tower and have someone rebuild the mechanisms for me, but for the present, they run smooth, and if they sound a little like coffee-grinders, at least they’re dependable, and hoo boy, do those PFM’s HAUL!
Always wondered about that weird gearing of theirs, though. [%-)]
Tom [:)]
Paul,
Well it’s been longer than a week…Pretty embarassing to see those words now…
I ended up buying the hi-lo regearing kit and it still sits in my to do box (man I have a lot of those). I discussed it with my train friends and they accused me of spending a lot of time on a half way fix and suggesated that I was cheaping out on the deal by not getting the hi-lo kit. Then I heard NWSL was for sale and figured I should get the kit while they were still available. (they now have a buyer and will continue)
Since then other stuff (and brass) has come up and so the project sits. I know of one person who regularly does this type of work who is currently two years out on his waiting list…I figure I might have to do it myself at some point…
Guy
Guy, I have concluded that the NWSL regearing system is not the best solution to the PFM spur gear noise. I recently had the challenge of working on a PFM Sierra with the NWSL hilo gear box installed. It had been professionally installed. There are significant clearance issues (rear engine), coupling problems to front engine, and alignment problems to the motor. I believe there is a far better and more painless solution on the way… Roundbell in Salida, CO, is working on a new idler gear box for the Sierra which will work with the existing axle gears and couple to the front (original) gearbox without modification – no gear-pulling or silicon tubing to the front engine (which is unsatisfactory). His approach is to simply replace the original rear gear box and spur gears with a tall idler gear box which will align with the motor shaft. He is trying to come up with a unit that will work on all the Sierra runs (there were slight differences between gearboxes over the production runs). It would be a good idea to contact him and offer encouragement to his effort! He is planning to work on this project this spring. Good Luck, Paul Mc
question guys…please show that 2-6-6-2 inside drive train…the challanger drive system might work on it,eighter the rossi or bowser drive systems might work… That what I’m going to do on my bowser T-1 duplex,remotoring and redo the drive line system…
I had success installing a NWSL .03 mod Hi-Lo box into a basket case United D&SL 2-6-6-0. It was a complete restoration for my dad as a Christmas present last year. I know it’s not the same loco, but the drive was the same.
I used NWSL universals to connect the two gear boxes, with the single U joint being inside the rear cylinders. If I remember correctly, some minor sergery was needed to the cylinders to make it work. I installed a small coil spring to the bottom of the front gear box to keep the U-joint between to the gear boxes from seperating when the engine was picked up. A small cannon D22 motor was used as well. There was enough room for a small flywheel, although I didn’t install one.
Sorry, no pics with the boiler off.
This subject has been brought up in the Yahoo Repower and Regear Group, with recommendations and some of the members do repowering for you, check the links. Also check the messages regarding this locomotive. One of the members is doing it and documenting the progress in the files section.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/
Rick
Thanks guys. I keep putting this project off, but I do want to get at it. Now that the farm scene is getting done, when I return from AZ I may try the Sierra.
Paul,
This is good news as roundbell is top notch. I did buy the NWSL HI-Lo set and noticed that they recommend changing the gear placement to another axle on the rear driver set. This requires major rebuilding of the frame because you have to remove a structural cross-member to make the gear fit on the specified axle. Upon dicusssing the situation with my local brass guru, I have been stalling on this project. I do have another articulated with a hi lo installed (not by me) that does run very well, so know they can work well. I’m just not sure I want to tackle major rebuilding right now.
Onequik…Thanks for the encouragement. Did you follow the NWSL advice and move the gear to another axle in the rear driver set???
Rick, thanks for the heads up on the regear group…I will check it out.
Art, Who is going to be first. I suggest we meet here in a year from now and see who is finished…[:-^]
BTW: I picked up some Beaver creek locos that I have been converting to DCC/sound as well as a gift of a smooth gliding SP brass 0-8-0 that needs a new gear box…This along with building the layout should ensure that some of these projects may sit for a while…If Roundbell comes up with a better mousetrap that my move me along…
Guy
I didn’t even know NWSL had instructions on the coversion. I just winged (wung?) it. I kept the gear box on the rear set of driver in the same spot, on the forward most axle. I remember having to take a little material off the gear box case and maybe the cylinders to get the rear gear box to lean forward enough to line up with the forward gear box.
I can see how moving the rear gear box back one axle would give you a more favorable angle between gear boxes, but I don’t think it’s nesesary. Besides, on the L-77 at least, it would leave very little room for a motor, especialy if you decided to add a back head.
John.