I just installed two Helix Humper motors in my Athearn BB PA1/PB1 set. Wow! What a difference in noise level, speed and power consumption. I used the #132 kit that just gives you a new motor. Only gripe is that the installation instructions were wrong concerning the PA1/PB1. It was not a simple drop in like they say it is. You have to mill out four areas. Luckily I work for a metal fabrication company and was able to have the milling done for me instead of wasting many Dremel wheels. That took about 2 minutes. But, for around $40 I upgraded 2 locos. Not bad at all, I think. I have 6 more to upgrade, then I’ll start saving up for DCC.
Very happy for you! I have to remotor a batch of Athearns myself. I’m going DCC and what good motors in my units.
I’ve seen the performances of Mashima, Sagami, and Kato aftermarket motors.
Can you tell us some more about your Helix units? Are they much quieter than the stock Athearns? Is it comparable to the motors I mentioned above? How many amps do the new motors draw?
Were you able to re-use the old driveshafts and couplers or did you have to change them out as well.
I have not tested the amperage draw yet. I’m still trying to figure out how to do that. Any suggestions would be great. I use the Tech 4 260, and it would overload with two of the Athearn BB’s after running for about 5 minutes. Last night I ran them for an hour, with no overload problems.[:D]
They are much quiter than the stock Athearn motors, hard to believe these are the same metal side framed locomotives. And depending on the model loco, you can just drop them. I’m using the stock Athern mounts, fly wheels, driveshafts, etc. You do have to put some CA on the shaft though. I suggest getting the thick or gel type CA. Then, using a tooth pick, smear a little inside the sleeve of the flywheel, and let it dry. Then hook all your running gear back up, replace the shell and you are on your way!
My lay out is a figure 8 with passing siding on one loop under a table in the dining area. (My wife ir REAlLY understanding) I have 18" radius curves, and it is all Bachmann EZ track, nickle-silver type. This is temporary until I get my garage conversion done.
I know they are much cheaper than the Kato, etc. There is a guy in the web, I think Greystone is the name that does very expensive locomotive upgrades, and he uses only the Helix Humper. I foud that out by doing a google search using helix humper. You have to watch out though since the porn film industry likes to use the word humper as well.
If you have an ammeter, put it inline between the feeder wires off of your powerpack. If DC works the same as AC–which it should for this application, the reading will tell you exactly how much you are drawing. If you have other things on the layout drawing power already, you should take a reading without the locomotive, and then put the locomotive on and test again.
Oh yeah, I might have to try that same thing. I have a pair of Athearn F7’s and an SD40-2. The F-7’s were some of my first locos, and have always been loud and annoying, and the SD40-2 is nearly new, I just took it out of the box, ran it a few laps and figured out how loud it was.
The locos are 3 with the metal sideframes and grey metal flywheels. I was told they were from the 70’s. I also have a few with the brass flywheels and plastic side frames. These I believe are from the 80’s. The rest have the closed frame Athearn motors. I did buy one that was NIB at last years train show in Plano, Tx.
Thanks for the info, Greg!
I have a digital meter, so tonight I’ll get a reading and let every one know what I found out tomorrow. What also helps in making the Athearns quieter for me, is to use white lithium grease on the gears, worm gear shafts, axles, and a spot on the brass bushings of the motor. I read a post about tuning up Athearn motors that I found works really well. Remove 1/3 of the armature brush spring on each side, and use a brigh boy or a pencil eraser to remove the carbon build up from the brushes. The reduced spring pressure coupled with the light lube helps the motor to spin easier. I hope this helps!
I have one of those old PA-1s with the metal sides too. Actually, it’s an A-B-A set, but only one is powered. The original motor in that thing drew around 0.75 amps running free!! It couldn’t even pull the two dummies faster than around 35 scale MPH. I replaced the motor in it with a newer gold motor from Athearn and it’s nearly silent now.[:D]
The older ones with the flywheels are from the mid’ to late 70s. The newer ones with the plastic sideframes I believe came out in the 80s if they aren’t PAs, DASH 9s, F59s and P40s. If they’re PAs than I believe they came out in 1990.(I read an old MR from 1990 with a review of the newer PA-1 on it)[:)]
Wow, Thanks Darth for the input! learning aboutthem is almost as much fun as running them. My SD9, U33C, and PA1 are the metal sideframed units. The rest are plastic sideframes with either an open motor or a “gold” one. My PB1 is the newer one.
Another thing I’d suggest is chaning out the wheelsets for nickel-silver. Those composition wheels which come with the engines tend to be pitted and real dirt collectors. Made a big difference in my engines in terms of not having constantly dirty wheels.
I have a friend who does an excellent job rebuilding Athearns. He always relaces the Athearn sintered wheels with NWSL wheels. It does make a difference.
Ok, I ran a current draw test in the figure 8 with 18 inch radius curves. The Tech 4 260 was set at 60% power. 15 freight cars were used for load. The remotored Athearn PA1/PB1 drew 0.34 each and when MU’ed pulled 0.61 total. For grins I tried my Mantua GP-20 which pulled 0.25 amps. My IHC SD-35 pulled 0.22 amps, and my “tuned up” Athearn SD 40-2 pulled 0.55 amps, and my other untuned, unmodified Athearns pulled anywhere from 0.68 to 0.98 amps. My Bachman spectrum F-7 AB lashup drew 0.23 amps each and totaled 0.40 when lashed together.
The Tech 4 shows a rating of 24v DC out, 18v AC out, and a rating of 20VA.
How does Volt-Amps relate to just Amps?
I’ll look into the Nickle Silver replacement wheels.
The volt-amp is a unit of power - the conversion of electrical energy to heat or mechanical motion. One volt of potential at one amp of current represents one volt-amp of power. In a DC circuit, 1 VA translates directly to 1 Watt; in an AC circuit 1 VA usually yields less than 1 Watt because of reactive losses, which aren’t germane to this discussion.
For example - your 20VA powerpack should be able to sustain a total 1.7A of current draw when delivering 12V to the rails. Current in a parallel circuit is additive, so your pack should be able to operate three locomotives that each draw 0.5A at 12VDC. The current draw of a given locomotive will vary depending upon the voltage applied at the rails and the load the locomotive is hauling, which is why DCC users often size decoders for the locked-rotor current, the highest current that a given motor will ever draw. For your purposes, you can just experiment with different sets of locomotives to find the largest set that can run together without tripping the powepack’s overload protector.
I guess the MRC sales pitch of the Tech 4 pushing 7 locomotives has to be taken with a grain od salt, since they did not specifiy the power rating of the transformer, the consumption of locomotives, or how long they ran the 7.
As a reformed salesman, I can confidently say that all advertising copy should be taken with a grain of salt. A copywriter, unlike a salesman, doesn’t have to face the customer the next time they come in after buying what he sold them. [:)]
As long as the 7 engines don’t pull more than 0.24A each at 12VDC they should be fine. I haven’t done exhaustive testing at various voltages, but I’d make an educated guess that it could happily run seven HO scale Atlas/Kato, Atlas/China, or Kato locomotives on level track…
Since I am not going DCC yet, I wonder if there is a 4-5 amp DC transformet out there at a reasonable price.
Also, what would the part numbers be for the NWSL nickle/silver wheels? I also do not know about NWSL’s “Inside frame” or “Outside Frame” means. I have both metal side frame and plastic side frame locos. The wheels look to be the same diameter, so I do not know what diameter to specify My Athearns are this:
Metal side framed: PA1, U33C, SD-9
Plastic side frame: PB1, SD40-2, SDP40, SD45
Remotoring Athearn BB engines produce some fine runners! I remotor all my primary engines, hard wire everything, replace the wheels with NWSL nickel silver sets, and replace the gears with Ernst low speed gearing. The end result is a slow moving, heavy pulling, smooth operating, low volt drawing, non-surging wonder of the model train world. It’s not wonder I spend so much time operating and so little on scenery! [:D]
What are the NWSL part numbers for the wheel sets? I hard wire everything as well, and have been re lighting my Athearns with Golden White LED’s. It can be done with out the use of fiber optics.
rrgassi, I’m at work and won’t be home for another couple of days. If someone else doesn’t have an answer by then I’ll look it up and post it here for you.
One thing I must say for the NWSL wheels over the sintered metal wheel sets…the electrical pick up improvement is astounding! No more little blue sparks and stuttering engines.
Ok, cool, thanks! I’m at work also. Being the IT guy lets me talk on the forums during my lunch and break times. I’m looking foward to no more blue sparks and stutters. Although, on my two remotored ones, I have not had that issue, yet.