I have an older Lifelike Alco PA that draws too much power. I am told that a replacement moter is the answer (referencing a test on Tony’s Train Exchange forum), but I am not sure what motor I should use or where to get it. A-Line repowering kits are available, but are they the best option. I need a smooth runner for DCC. Can anyone help?
BTW, this unit runs as a single unit pulling a local 3-car passenger train.
RicZ
Curious if you have quantified the current draw with a meter? I have early release P2K PAs that are as quiet as quiet can be and are power misers. Are yours of the vintage when Life Like was a part of Hobby Craft (before the Walthers purchase)?
But to your point, my info from others is the Aline motor is a quality part.
I also have a LL PA on which I’ve just completed a board replacement switch to DCC. I’m pleased with the way it performs, so I’m wondering what Tony’s tests (or your experience) indicated that pointed to a motor replacement. I’m guessing it tops out at about 60-70 scale mph, but that is about all I can push a locomotive to on my layout.
Mike
There is a whole series of Proto passenger cab units that came with some oddball motor that could draw as much as 4 amps. At the time, LL offered replacements, so if you have an older one but bought it used, it’s possible that the motor was already replaced. The EASIEST repalcement is the very same P2K motor except without the huge current draw, like the majority of the PAs and E units have.
–Randy
Just to be clear, Life Like was never owned by “Hobby Craft”. Prior to Wathers, it was Life-Like Products, Inc - 1600 Union Ave, Baltimore, MD 21211, a division of Like Foam Industries. A Baltimore company with a long history in both styrofoam coolers/products and model train supplies.
“Hobbycraft” is a Canadian hobby distributor and had the exclusive Canadian rights to distribute LIfe-Like model train products before the Walthers purchase. I do not know the current Canadian marketing situation.
As for early high current motors, as Randy suggests, the best solution is to find the low current version of the original if possible, they are great motors. And, as also suggested, be sure you REALLY have a high current motor before worrying about changing it.
I have 4 early production PA’s, none draw more than .5 amps.
Sheldon
Walthers does it on their own. Hobbycraft Canada became Trueline Trains.
http://www.alliancelocomotiveproducts.com/
Might try Alliance, they had some PK2 BL2 motors so they may have the PA’s.
Cuda Ken
Before you go changing the motor, check the trucks for old hardened grease, if it old and hardened, clean the wheels and gears with alcohol and relube with LaBelle’s Teflon Greases, run it in a bit and recheck the amp draw. These E units were geared kind of slow, about 60-70 smph max. so if you think there not going fast enough that’s probably why.
Jay,
Good thought about the gear grease, however I must respectfully correct two points, the loco in question is an ALCO PA1, not an E unit, and current draw is the issue not speed.
It only recent production Walthers built Proto E units that have a regearing/speed issue.
All the early Proto PA1’s and EMD E units run at or slighly above a prototypical top speeds at 12-14 volts DC - as there were designed.
Sheldon
I have a pair of the early run PA’s that had the high current motors in them. Granted they ran really great, but I was frying decoders at an alarming rate.
I got lucky at the time in that TCS (the decoders I was using) replaced the the burnt ones under their Goof Proof warrantee. Walthers had just taken over Life Like and were oblivious to the problem. With proper documentation to the high current problem, they reluctantly sent me two new replacement motors.
This problem was never widely advertised - for obvious reasons … Walthers would have had to hand out a LOT of free motors !
This was back in Sept. 2006 and I was dealing with Larry T. (still have my original correspondences). Larry also commented at the time if they had been aware of these motor problems and all the broken axle gears they were having to replace, they may have seriously reconsidered buying Life Like when they did.
So, yes - the original motor IS (was) a problem.
Mark.
I have a Proto 2000 PA1 painted in D&RGW Grande gold/silver 4-stripe from the 1990’s but never got it on my layout to run (still in original box). Anyone know of that run was affected by this issue or not?
As an asside, I’ve seen this model on auction for crazy prices, but I guess they’ve been out of production for a long time, and now MTH has a same pained model for a good deal more.
There is no way to know until yo run it. but if it is early 90’s it could be one of the high current motors.
What is a crazy price? They sold for about $120 retail, no DCC when they first came out. At one point they could easily be had in the $50-$60 range. I paid as little as $30 for some of mine - undecorated.
I have noticed the older “new old stock” Proto prices getting a little higher - its called supply and demand.
MTH, no thank you, not based on what we have seen from them so far.
Sheldon
The only way to tell if it has one of the affected motors is to do a current stall test. Running-wise, the affected motor runs fine … I actually thought mine ran a bit better before I swapped out the motor.
If you don’t plan on putting a decoder in it, I’d be tempted to leave it alone. If you are going to put a decoder in, be sure to do the stall current test first to avoid prematurely frying a decoder.
Mark.
Jay, is there a recommended way to clean the gears prior to re-lubing them? I’ll give that a try first.
RicZ
Good old soap and water and an old tooth brush works fine. You really need to disassemble the trucks to do the job properly. Relube lightly with the Labelle grease of your choice. Some of the gunk in these gearboxes almost requires a hammer and chisel.[:^)]
I don’t think my P2K PA listed for $120, the newer runs yes but mine is from the mid-1990’s I believe although my memory is a bit fuzzy. I think I paid about $60 for it at one of the latter day GATS shows in Rochester New York IIRC. Yeah, I took Econ 1A back in 1977 as a night class while in my final year in high school. Supply & demand, guns and butter and all that. In England they call it “taking the Mickey” re: asking prices that are in all likelyhood higher than original MSRP! Thanks for the edumacation - yes, I know I asked but it was more a “kick off” than a state of total confusion.
I don’t have any plans to buy MTH, although the model looks pretty nice from the photo’s. I wonder if the production of the MTH will curb the demand/mickey taking prices for 17 year old P2K PA’s on fleabay with high current motors! I’ll check mine when I get the opportunity - but I’m a bit divided while I live in a shoe box for the next few years. Ohm meter is stored elsewhere.
You have to remove the trucks and disassemble them. I soak everything in 71% alcohol for a few hours then scrub them, then wash them in soap and water, rinse thoughly and let them dry. I use LaBelle’s Teflon grease #106 after reassembly. Run in each direction for a few minutes to distribute the lubrication.
Sheldon, you’re absolutely right! For some reason I was thinking E units. Sorry.
OK, I did a little research, and $120 was the price of a PA1 in the second or third run.
First run, indroduced in the fall of 1997, item #'s 21XXX, powered A units retail $95.00, dummy B units $45, no powered B units offered until later runs.
Verious ads in MR show them selling for between $50 and $70, similar to what I said.
Sheldon
Thats sounds close to what I recall. I did a little research also and found an article by Rich Picariello in Nov 1997 issue of Model Railroading magazine on the D&RGW PA’s prototypes and models. In that article he included reference to the Proto 2000 model and that it was expected to be available in Decemer 1997. Based on what I paid and typical discounts of approx 30% and price paid at a train show when these were first out of around $60-65, it probably was the first run. Dummy units were unpowered from that run also but I only have a PA1 unit.