In Kokomo, Indiana–I am told because of a dispute between NS and CERA–where the CERA line meets the NS line, NS pulled up one rail to prevent passage. Apparently, this prevents NS interchange at Kokomo.
I have seen this at other locations as well. For instance, where the KBS line meets the TPW line just near the Illinois border, near Kentland I think, there is a connecting track and a 50-yard siding. A single rail is pulled up here as well to prevent passage.
Why do railroads do this? Are they really concerned that some other railroad might attempt to sneak on their tracks without a warrant and serve customers–I know that is riduculous, and that is my point.
It would seem more efficient just to leave the rail head in place in the event economic situations make the connection more profitable in the future.
Gabe
p.s. You see rails lying along the side of tracks for years. Do you think they are left there to rust - abandoned? With scrap iron prices the way they are, they are probably worth $150-200 per rail at a scrap yard. If they are abandoned, you could make a lot of money just driving by the tracks if you had a trailor.
I doubt that one carrier would sneak on to anothers track to serve a customer, but I wonder if it is not more of a safety issue, perhaps governed by a federal rule. Removing one rail obviously makes it impossible for one carrier to inadvertantly go on another’s carrier track.
I don’t recall the exact problem, but a trainmaster told me of using another carriers track for a very short period to solve an operating problem. May have had to turn a locomotive or something. The move was done without any authority from the connecting carrier. Obviously a very big no-no, but I could still see a crew doing something like that to get out of a sticky operational problem.
That is pretty fantastic, you and about twelve other people on this forum are the only ones I would even believe such a story. Man, that would create a big lawsuit if there were an accident on the other carrier’s property resulting from such unauthorized use.
I don’t know I am just doing the eqaution in your quote of 80 x 39. I thought 39 yards was an awfully long rail, but that is why I have to ask questions on here.
[(-D] You’re right, I see the math error on my post now. Yes, 39 yards would be a pretty long rail! I just wondered if scrap iron prices really were that high? Recently, I saw where the Milwaukee Road line east out of Rapid City, S.D., that probably hasn’t seen a train in 25+years, and never will agian, still has the ties and rail in the roadbed. I wonder why someone isn’t pulling that up for scrap value? A guy should be able to pull most of those spikes out with crowbar.
When scrap peaks, there is an awful lot of money to be had there. I went to a scrap yard with the bed of a very small pick up half full with material one heck of a lot dense than a rail, and got $125. I would have to think a standard rail would weigh more than what was in the back of my truck.
As of today (12-20) rail is being purchased for .07/#, or $140/ton, according to the Chicago Metal Market listing. The price may vary slightly at other locations.
So a 39 foot piece of 136# (1,768#) rail sells for about $123.75
Gabe: it has happened several times here in Denver with a shortline sneaking through interlockings of UP and BNSF. Imagine what the DS sees when an interlocking lights up in the middle of the night…
As for pulling a rail out (from a trackman’s perspective)
(1) If the other railroad controls the switch in the interlocking and you control the track beyond a point, you pull the rail. (The track is effectively out of service and the missing rail is more effective than a derail…operating people are devious and known to pull spikes, selectively ignore track condition messages, pick locks and so on just to avoid doing something the hard way or to shut-up a beligerent/cheap switch customer) You pull the rail and take the spikes with you[;)].
If the switch to the track is signalized, it is rendered useless while the signalman is still free to do the required tests that he needs to perform and to help avoid gumming up somebody’s signal plant.
Operating people hate to see trackage taken out of service even if they never use a track. Switch crews may use a track just because “it’s there” or can be used to sort something out that they forgot to do elsewhere. Things get really bizarre if you can turn a car by using this track…
(2) Rails get pulled also when contractual squabbles between railroads happen. The rail comes out to make an emphatic point and to make it more difficult for Brand X railroad to cheat in the methods lifting above. (Trainmaster can’t use the tools in his trunk plus it takes a major effort to put the rail back which would raise red flags in management somewhere…
As for scrap rail pickup - the roadmaster may have plans to have a rail pickup gang with a burro crane and a railcar sabotaged because of budget cuts (beancounters!) for years on end. His regular people are usually stretched too thin to be detailed to pick-up scrap…
Recently, I saw where the Milwaukee Road line east out of Rapid City, S.D., that probably hasn’t seen a train in 25+years, and never will agian, still has the ties and rail in the roadbed. I wonder why someone isn’t pulling that up for scrap value? A guy should be able to pull most of those spikes out with crowbar.
From what I observed a year ago while driving I-90 across South Dakota, between some point near the eastern edge of Rapid City and downtown Kadoka The Milwaukee Road’s line to the Black Hills has been pulled up. Most recently this section of track was owned by the State of South Dakota and “rail banked” with the idea that it might become economically viable at some time in the future. The State decided to rid itself of the track (and presumably the myriad of wooden trestles) because of ongoing public liability issues.
During December 2005 the Kadoka depot still stood (now a museum) and there were several industry tracks in place serving some small grain elevators. The condition of the track wasn’t too shiny though. With a lot of light weight rail everywhere, numerous low track joints, and too many rotted-out crossties, running 100-ton capacity grain hoppers over this piece of railroad (even at 5-mph or less) would be something akin to economic suicide.
Perhaps the railroad connection to Kadoka exists only as a way to keep the grain hauling trucker’s freight rates in check. Those twin streaks of rust still in place may pose enough of a silent threat so as to prevent the “asphalt cowboys” from gouging the farmers on transportation charges.
Bob-that was me, talking about The Milwaukee Road line. This September, I was out there. The line still exists, between Chamberlain and Kadoka. The Dakota Southern was operating over it, but pulled out a few years ago. It is shot, and will probably never see a train again. As far as the line going east out of Rapid City, I was amazed to see rail still in place! Starting at about the location of the hwy 79 bypass, it goes east, past Murphy Siding ([:)]), as far as Farmingdale. At that point, I turned north, back to I-90. A good guess, is that it is pulled up east of Farmingdale. I thought it was amazing that rail was still in place.
There may also be something else going on here. Years ago, I believe it was during the Conrail era, rail sections were taken from the old Erie main in western New York. IIRC the issue was property taxes. Apparently an operating railroad has more taxable value than a non-operating one. Reducing the tax value of the plant was a real money saver in New York, given the very high property tax rates. Also, because the line was out of service, there was no need to maintain it. An added bonus was that crossings became exempt, thus facilitating the flow of road traffic. Today the line is back in business under the flag of the WNYP. Improvements continue and traffic is growing. Businesses are returning to rail service and there is a strong effort to bring new business to the area.
Who would be responsible if someone didn’t know that a rail was removed? Sounds like a malicious act to prevent another company to use the track wouldn’t be worth the loss of LIFE or property.
I was on I-90 between Rapid City and Sioux Falls about two months ago.
Rail still in Kadoka to Chamberlin where you can see it from interstate. Some where east of there everything has been removed. I don’t know the station name, but track was close to I-90 on north side and then swung away from road for good.
Not likely to be a problem. Train crews working in the area would receive notice of the closing of the track. If someone didn’t get the word, the track would probably have been limited to a restricted speed operation-a speed at which the train could be stopped in one half the distance of the engineers view down the track, but not more than 10 or 15 MPH (I forget which). Worst case, some wheels on the ground, maybe some unpaid “leave” for the crew.