For the streamline cars, just chop off the the brakeshoe detail entirely. The cars have just been upgraded to Budd disk brakes :). The Budd system has no external parts, just big disks inboard (and hidden by) the wheels.
I just rehabbed 12 of those same 1930s streamlined cars this past week. I removed the trucks and thew away the truck pin, Inserted a piece of 1/8" & drilled and tapped it. I then re attached the trucks with a #2 screw and then made it tight enough to not wobble but loose enoufg to turn freely. I thne attached a piece of styrene to the underside of the car where a couple would go, depending on the car you may need different sizes, I also glued a piece on the inside of the car at the end to give a little more gripping power. I then drilled and tapped a hole to attach the coupler with. Then I replaced all the wheelsets and then trimmed things off the inside of the end of the truck to allow for turning without hitting the coupler box. VOILA thats all there is to it!
I’m currently upgrading my HO Rivorossi passenger cars. Stripping and repainting the shells as well as painting and IHC interiors.
Dealing with the trucks and couplers is something I’m not looking forward to, however, when the time comes I’ll refer to the info on this thread as well as the other related threads.
I won’t buy any more Rivorossi’s as the Walthers Budds are what I’ll be focusing on, however, I have six Rivorossi’s and plan on keeping them. With the skirts cut off, interior and exterior detailing, these cars look nice! I plan on metalizing the shells with the Alclad II Stainless steel.
The cars will be in SCL and Southern Railway lettering.
Train Station Products makes some awesome trucks at a reasonable price if you are willing to do a little work. They are kits, but if put together right look great. And I believe it is Jay Bee that makes a body mount coupler adapter for those cars. It was mentioned before to remove the brake detail from the trucks. I would highly recommend researching the prototype before you did that, epecially with the GSCs. Some still had shoes all the way until the “end” (mostly head-end cars). There were a lot of upgrades over the years. For example, Santa Fe upgraded most of their lightweight equipment with 41-CUDO or 41-CDO trucks (disk brakes), although you would still see 41-Ns (with brakeshoe and external cylinder) on their head-end stuff into the Amtrak days.
Edit: The Train Station Products trucks come with a talgo bolster that can easily be modified if you want to go with body mounts.
CSmith,
Thanks for that tip on Train Station Products.
In my case, I’m not too worried about being “exactly” prototypical as long as I can capture the “overall flavor” of appearance. I’m modeling passenger trains in the 1960s which is why I cut off the skirts on Rivorossi cars. If these replacement trucks will work, I’ll buy a set and try them out.
On the layout I’m building the curves well be 22" radius, so I’m debating as to whether to go body mount or Talgo. Don Gibson indicated on another thread that cars with body mounted couplers may yank talgo truck equipped Rivorossi cars off of the rails on curves. I would like to run my Walther Budds coupled to Rivorossi’s, so that’s what has me pondering. My Rivorossi’s are weighted down with BB’s in the floor’s pockets.
High Greens
I build a lot of passenger cars from the ground up and Train Station Products offers some great details, especially those core kits. For Santa Fe cars the ECW core kits are garbage. With body mount couplers an everything you should be able to make 22". I would test it out first. The only thing that I found with the Walther’s passenger cars (the first run in particular) is that the diaphrams bind on tighter radius curves and can cause derailments. On the inside of the car are metal “springs” that provide the resistance for the diaphrams. The problem is that they provide too much resistance. You can ben those back a little so they aren’t so tight. The newer diaphrams are much better in that there are plastic springs built into the diaphrams that provide a lot less resistance. I have been replacing all of mine with American Limited, primarily because of incorrect striker plates on the diaphrams provided with the kit.
Also there were wheel guage problems with the earlier runs that can cause derailments, especially on a tighter radius. I learned thes
The Rivorossi HO 85ft Budd coaches that I are the WWII era versions. I would like to re-equip them with the 41-series trucks or something similar.
RIVAROSSI 85’ and IHC cars have problems:
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They are too long for short curves.
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They have 31" wheels
3, cheap plastic trucks.
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Insufficient weight to follow the the track.
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Talgo (truck mounted) couplers.
ANSWERS cost money.
36" wheels raise the car, require modification, + sidefeame plastic is poor. KD ‘talgo’ conversions are $$ Body mounting requires skilled work - height - assembly.
BEST to sub IHC metal trucks - adds weight - good rolling - maintaign original height, replace couplers. Work + money.
ON THE CHEAP replace with McHenry couplers and set aside for looks, not running ability.
Don,
Currently I have the shells removed on 4 of my cars.
I filled their floor pockets with BB shot pellets and smothered them with glue. What a difference!
Just to try it out, I changed out the stock 31" wheels and compromised by installing P2K 33" wheels instead of 36" wheels. So far these undercarriages roll much, much better than stock . I know the prototypes used 36" wheels, but in this case the difference doesn’t seem to be very noticeable.
I will take the extra steps later and change out the trucks. But for now it seems that once I get the bodies paint metalized and install the interiors I’ll be able to run them at my club’s layout along with my Walther’s Budds.
As for the railroad name decals, I’ll like to use a company whose stainless steel cars ran on SCL trains back in the late 1960s. ( L&N, RF&P, Penn Central, Central of Georgia, and CB&Q)
With an 18 inch radius and this long of a car, I’d recommend against body mounting the couplers. The Kadee conversion kits (they make different ones for the 4 and 6 wheel trucks), with either Kadee or Proto 2000 36 inch wheelsets (see note above about trimming the brakeshoes) in the existing truck frames will do nicely until you’re ready to move up to a wider minimum curve. I have several that I converted like this and still run on the club’s 36 inch minimum radius with no problems. I even mix them with Rivarossi cars with body mounted couplers with no problems.
The easiest method I’ve found to build up the area for body mounting the couplers is to get a pack of Evergreen Styrene strips .040 by .250 and use this as a filler between the cast on center sill of the car. (If this is all you use this styrene for, one pack will do a HUGE fleet of cars) The width of the strip may need a small bit of filing to drop in, but this brings the coupler mounting surface almost flush with the bottom of the car. Secure it into position with your favorite styrene cement (I use Plastic Weld by Plastruct), and let it dry. Then lay the coupler cover against it with the lip hooked over the edge of the car (where it will sit when properly mounted) and mark the place to drill the hole. Drill a #50 hole and tap for a 2-56 screw. Mount a #5 here, reinstall the truck, and check it for height. Install shims under the pocket as needed.
It probably took me longer to type this out than it does to actually do it.
Antonioso:
GETTING Rivarossi and IHC cars to run reliably as you know is a ‘Work in progress’. Where does one start (or stop)? It depends on ones Layout.
Problem 1. weight: Gone are the European flanges. Equalizing weight of cars prevents ‘tip over’ of cars on curves. A good compromise between wt. per car vs. wt. per inch is NMRA weighting in a mixed consist.
Problem 2. couplers. Tuck mounted Talgos and extra long couplers offer answers for too-long cars on too-sharp curves. (but the track is the real problem). Ideally 85’ cars should be on 46"r curves.
Problem 3. Different couplers have different geometry and spring tensions. (Kadee has 3 different spring centering designs alone plus longer/shorter on each).
BEST results are ontained when they match: KD#36/#36, McHenry/McHenry, etc. Remrember three dynamics are at work here: the flange against the curved rail, momentum going straight, and the coupler pulling without regard to either.
Problem 4. Wheels & Rolling. 31" plastic wheels (on my calipers), plus cruddy sideframes allow improvements (1) Metal Passenger 36" wheels (raising car 4 scale “), (2) Body mounting Couplers, (3) Coupler mounting pads to lower body mouts 4’'. (4) Teflon grease in the axle jounals to reduce friction, (5) Cuttin off the ‘brake shoes’ to free up the 36” wheels or
(6) Buy the IHC metal trucks and mounting adapters (for Rivarossi) to skip all the aformentioned 5. These trucks roll freely withe best of them, lower the center of gravity with unsprung weight, allow body mounting KD’s, and since they have 31" wheels- don’t raise the car.
MY GOAL, like yours, is to be able to mix and run with my other cars wherever I take them. Besides, those Rivarossi HW cars sure
Okay, my two cents worth.
Double-tape Lead sheet weights in the cars, right over the trucks, center them so that when you pop the roof back on they do not interfere. You can mount interiors right over them. Bring the cars up to about 6 oz. of weight Get the TUNER, a little job that goes in and reams the inside of the truck journals. Buy Intermountain 36" metal wheelsets. CAREFULLY Bend out the outer brakeshoes of the Rivarossi trucks if needed–you might not have to. Pop in the Intermountains, make sure they spin freely. Buy McHenry spring-mounted couplers made for Rivarossi/IHC cars. Okay, they’re Talgo, but they also fit better and work better. The coupler mechanism should not extend more than 1-8" beyond the ends of the cars, unless you plan on using working diaphraghms.
You should have a pretty good running passenger train after that. I’ve got a Rivarossi/IHC streamliner that runs just as well–if not better–than my Walthers.
Tom
TOM:
If your Walthers passenger cars aren’t running better than IHC’S, it’s the metal axles turning in metal journaled side frames (for lighting).
Lubricate the axle points with a dab of Kadee’s ‘Grease em’ (Graphite).
For converting my Rivarossi cars. I operate on minimum radius of 30".
Changed trucks to good quality. I’ve used IHC, Tenshodo, Central Valley, and other good trucks. Modify bolsters on car bottom for proper placement of trucks. Install trucks. Check car height and adjust truck intallation for proper height.
Install Kadees to body ends. I use long shank kadees and set the coupler box back to allow proper coupling distance between cars. Adjust pad thickness for proper coupler height.
Install seats if car had none.
Weight to NMRA standards.
I have a Rivarossi set of four cars that came with the one piece trucks. I removed the original horn hooks and installed the Kadee replacement coupler that has the long reach to is allow it to set inside the Rivarossi trucks.
While I was at it, I ground off a little of the bolster to get the car to ride lower to correct height. This was a cut and fit operation.
My cars came with an interior consisting of seats and compartment divisions. I disassembled the cars and cut/ground off all protrusions on the floor so that I could get a sheet of lead to lie flat. I also shoved some of the moldable lead into any nooks and crannies that are below floor level. My aim was to get the cars to weigh what NMRA recommends. I don’t remember what that is now. Once the lead sheet was flat, I Goo-ed the seats on top of it, raising them slightly to a position that makes them more visible.
With the cars properly wieghted and lowered, there is absolutely NO problem dereailing them in a b ack up manoeuver. And with the four cars tied to one RS-2, the loco slows appropriately on a 2% grade.