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Report: CSX opposes higher speed passenger trains in New York without separate line
It is funny how CSX waited thru 4-years of this Empire Corridor DEIS, and only now when its virtually complete do they find the time to state…
“Its no good, we don’t support any of this, even thou you followed our initial statements (110-mph track had to be 30’ from existing track), none of it is no good, start over from scratch.”
Gee, thanks for telling us. CSX’s biggest concern seems to be the proposed plans for a new dedicated passenger track at 90 or 110-mph, but that has been part of the DEIS for at least two whole years, if CSX found that unacceptable, why didn’t they say so sooner? Why waste all of our time and money?
I think that CSX timed this to do the most damage to the idea of improving passenger rail in Upstate NY (They even state that people should fly or take the bus), that want another “Turboliner” fiasco so that the public will loss faith in proposals to improve intercity rail travel.
CSX brings up legitimate concerns and criticisms, but its clear that they are not acting in good faith. They want no more passenger trains on their tracks, and they’re willing to try some underhanded tactics to get their way.
CSX is pretty clear, they don’t want any more Amtrak frequency than the 4 round-trips today Albany-Buffalo, and they don’t want the speed to be higher than 79-mph passenger/60-mph freight.
A third “dedicated-passenger” track within the existing formerly 4-track ROW is probably not a good idea, but building a third shared passenger/freight track is, even 3-tracks at 79-mph will greatly improve on-time reliability and reduce travel times by 30 to 60 minutes, but its not clear to me that CSX would support that.
One thing should be clear, that we are not talking about “real high-speed rail” but making improvements for existing Amtrak trains to go faster. This isn’t the TGV, but CSX makes it sound like it is, when clearly its not.
As a member of the Empire State Passenger Association, I’ll have see what are group decides to support, it seems to me three tracks at 90-mph with 6 round-trips Albany-Buffalo would be a fair compromise.
If not, building a new dedicated passenger line on a new ROW only makes economic/enviromental sense if it also carries freight, perhaps night freights from CN, CP, NS in Buffalo to CP and PanAm/NS in Schenectady, and intermodal for those three and maybe CSX too. Like the first German high-speed “Neubaustrecke” railways that where built for both intercity passenger and goods trains.
WILLIAM D HAYS,
Because the track-centers for the current double-track line are wider now for what originally where the two passenger tracks on the south side of the ROW (which is why all old NYC passenger stations are on the south side of the line), there is now only room for one additional mainline track within the existing ROW. It would be where the two freight tracks had been, they were removed in the mid-1950s under President Alfred Perlman to cut costs.
The DEIS has two proposals for a new third track, one 15’ from the center of the nearest existing track with a top speed of 90-mph, and one 30’ away with a top speed of 110-mph, which puts it off the current ROW.
CSX opposes the dedicated passenger track and any speed higher than the current 79-mph, the question is would they support a third shared track at 79-mph?
If a new line is to be built, perhaps Norfolk Southern would like to use it? CSX should be careful what it wishes for.
If a new line is to be built, perhaps Norfolk Southern would like to use it? CSX should be careful what it wishes for.
Would it be worth talking about the possibility of building a “new” corridor for CSX? Would that be less expensive than building a new separate higher speed passenger only line?
CSX stating that bus or plane service is cynical distraction. The distances between upstate service is perfect for moderately fast trains. Buses are too slow and the cities are too close for planes.
The West Shore Line route should be considered if practical but the old NYC ROW is wide with minimal additional ROW needed for adequate separation. What CSX really fears is not freight congestion but it is liability from accidents. An example was the law that CSX insisted before allowing SunRail which transferred all liability to Florida even if CSX was at fault. If a corridor was made for rail it is the Upstate Corridor and CSX obstinacy must be overcome.
The old West Shore Railroad west of Albany was largely abandoned when New York Central took it over. West Shore paralleled the NYC mainline and was mostly abandoned because NYC preferred its own ROW. Maybe part or most of the still largely intact right of way could be restored for service for passenger service.
Up to now CSX has been on board this exercise but now all of a sudden is changing its tune. I am on the verge of calling this blackmail or extortion of some kind. The NYC did have several separate routes across the state and a ROW wide enough for four to six tracks. So, maybe CSX is saying simply, buy or rent our property, build your super passenger railroad within the right of way, but keep passenger trains off CSX freight rails. There are places, too, where the old West Shore right of way and lines could be used by one or the other. But, really, it is a surprise (at least publicly) that CSX took this stance now.
Before building outside the existing ROW how about adding two passenger tracks on an elevated line above the freight tracks? It would cost less than acquiring a new ROW and would give CSX access to it’s customers. Elevated boarding platforms could also be added above the CSX tracks.
Illinois and Michigan invest in UP and NS with HSR rail because they carry very little freight. The CSX route is a significant freight carrier and any HSR construction or sharing will impede their freight scheduling, including the Railex perishables express from California.
CSX is not a total non-player in sharing or working with states on rail. They recently sold their central Florida route to FDOT for SunRail, so you know they will play ball.
They are saying that as a business, HSR shouldn’t share infrastructure on this route.
CSX is right on the mark. Further, it would be ridiculous to move CSX tracks since their customers would then need to move. Best to have a new separate passenger main.
No need to build another line. Eminent Domain. There are other New York routes available to CSX for their use if they aren’t able to deal with higher train speeds.
I must agree with CSX on this topic, being a frequent visitor to the line, there are a tremendous amt of time sensitive freights, and with that comes constant track work, all which which would be detrimental to higher speed passenger service. I believe that the 79mph Empire service is about all one could ask for while sharing rails with a busy freight line. Just my 2 cents.
I must agree with CSX on this topic, being a frequent visitor to the line, there are a tremendous amt of time sensitive freights, and with that comes constant track work, all which which would be detrimental to higher speed passenger service. I believe that the 79mph Empire service is about all one could ask for while sharing rails with a busy freight line. Just my 2 cents.
Supposedly Governor Walker’s election came with the backing of the major railroads there, who wanted him to kill HSR there seeing the proposed new lines as “competition”. So CSX in NY is taking the opposite view, apparently wanting new lines built.
I wonder if, post Acela Express, there’s some debate within the Class 1s as to the best approach for passenger rail going forward. Half a billion a year, most of which is profit, must seem like a project worth chasing, but at the same time it’s a massive risk. CSX is known to be conservative as far as passenger service goes. Perhaps others are taking the opposite view.
Build 2 separate tracks on old west shore, get CN to help, and grant them nighttime trackage rights so they can head down the southern tier to NYC!!!
Restore the old New York Central 4MT ROW between ALB and BUF. It is still there. Bridges and underpasses are still there. Up-grade/re-build all four tracks to “Higher Speed” standards. Lots of the old West Shore ROW is available for reactivation for CSX drags. 75 trains-per-day seems to be max, for a 2MT line.
I think this is just posturing by CSX to make sure they don’t get turfed out of some future capacity on the route by the state’s plans for passenger rail. It’s a completely legitimate stance for CSX to take. It doesn’t mean this dance is done, though.