I have a large fleet of older Athearn Blue Box locomotives, mostly Geeps and SD40/SD45’s. I am looking at repowering some of them so that they will run better and have the option to add DCC later. I’m looking on Athearn’s website, and they have both the Genesis Motor and the High-Performance motor. Will the new Genesis motor be compatible with the old worm gear and power trucks? If I decide to get a HP motor, will I still have to solder the DCC decoder in or will the motor work with a PC board with a DCC plug? Thanks!
[#welcome] While I’ve yet to put a Genesis motor in anything, (there’s nothing wrong with them, just haven’t had the need to do it yet) I did re-motor a Blue Box DDA40X with a pair of the Athearn high performance motors about a year ago, and I didn’t have to do anything special to it other than shorten one of the plastic drive shafts that plugs into the universal joints because the new motors are a little bit longer than the stock units. I didn’t have to change the power trucks or worm gears at all, all I did was clean and re-lube them. I wouldn’t think that you’d have to do any major mechanical alterations to install a Genesis motor. However, I did find this YouTube video on upgrading a Blue Box loco to a Genesis motor that might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLLCcomio4A Hope this helps. Good luck.
I had a number of old Athearn BB engines from the 50s. When I tried to run them again after 40 years in storage, they ran hesitantly if at all. I looked into both remotoring and replacing the old sintered wheels. Then I looked at M.B. Klein, and found the same engines for less than the cost of rehabbing the old ones.
I did remove the motors from a couple of the old engines, replace the couplers and I now run them as dummies. But, when you look at the old shells vs. new ones, the difference in detail is pretty obvious.
Just for the heck of it, look for closeouts and at discount sites like Trainworld for the engines you’re interested in. Compare the costs, and think about you much of a job it would be to fix up an old engine.
I have used the Mabuchi FK-280SA motor as a replacement in the Athearn BB diesels. The Athearn motor is a 12,000 RPM with 3mm shafts, the Mabuchi 280 is 14,000 RPM with 2mm shafts.
I have used the Mabuchi motor as is and NWSL universals with out the flywheels as well sleeved the Athearn Flywheels using K&S 3mm brass tubing.
The Mabuchi has equal power when compared to the Athearn BB motors but draws much less current. The Neodymium magnet motors are four times more efficient over the old motors.
I have the exact same loco model and the existing Athearn motor seems to be giving up (magnets dying?). I have cleaned and lubed it several times but it can’t hold a steady speed to save its life. I have an NCE D13SRJ decoder with a TCS KA4 “keep alive” installed as I have done in most of my Athearn Blue Box locos. All run quite nicely with the original Athearn motors except this one. When pulling even a short train, this loco immediately slows as it enters a curve and you really have to give it the Willy to get it up any grade. It seems to get weaker and weaker as you run it for a while, too. The back EMF settings of the decoder don’t seem to have any effect on this motor.
Taking your advice, I just ordered 4 of the Mabuchi FK-280SA can motors for $11 with shipping. Would you recommend the work needed to adapt the Athearn flywheels and universals or just go with the NWSL universals and no flywheels? This loco will be used to pull short trains up to 10 cars long up grades as steep as 2.6%.
I previously tried repowering another Blue Box loco using a new Bachmann can motor but am not impressed with this conversion as it seems to have too little torque. The Bachmann motor came with tiny brass (so small its difficult to describe them as) flywheels. It makes me wonder whether large heavy flywheels do indeed help with a loco’s momentum.
If it was my locomotive I would try installing the flywheels on the Mabuchi shafts. If I couldn’t get them to run without vibration (flywheels off balance) I would scrap the flywheels and go with the NWSL universals. I really don’t like momentum anyway, and if you rely on the momentum because of problems with power pickup I’d fix the track.
I’m the engineer on my layout and I control the locomotive speed not flywheels or momentum in the controller.
I only shimmed the Athearn flywheels to see if I could.
Four of these Athearn switchers, modified into a version of the SW1200RS used by several roads…
…and re-motored with Mashima can motors…
…and minus the puny flywheels, which were replaced with custom cast lead weights…
…easily handled a 71 car train up the 45’ long 2.8% grade to the second level of my layout.
I also re-did three of these Athearn U-33-Cs…
… with dual Mashima motors and lots of extra weight…
…giving them each a drawbar pull of 8.3oz. - a combined output of almost 25oz.
This one got a Sagami motor, Ernst gearing, and a detailed cab interior…
…and these Athearn geeps, modified to match specific prototypes, also got Mashima can motors and lots of additional weight…
All of these Athearn locomotives ran more smoothly, had improved speed range, and lower current draw. Most were sold when I back-dated my layout’s era, but a few are still around in a display cabinet, and still make occasional trips on the layout, too.
As is apparent, all of these locomotives are DC powered, so the space inside the body shells
I removed the body shell from one of the TH&B locos, and all that was on the motor was a sticker that read “MASHIMA 12 VOLT MADE IN JAPAN”. No part number or any other info.
I don’t recall where I bought the motors, but it was quite a few years ago, so likely at one of the many hobbyshops which existed nearby at that time.
I measured the motor with my not-overly-accurate calipers, and it appears to be 18x26mm, and about 32mm long.
Here’s a link to some Mashima motors, but in my opinion, they’re grossly overpriced. None of mine have the commutator open to view, as they’re all full can-motors.
I don’t recall what I payed for mine, but likely under $30.00…probably closer to $20.00.
There are a lot of other decent motors available for much less nowadays, and the main thing to keep in mind is the amount of space within your loco’s shell, especially the width, as it decreases somewhat towards the top of the cavity due to the draught angle needed to eject it from the mould.
I ran into difficulties with that on the #53 loco, which used a Sagami motor from NWSL, and I had quite a bit of tedious work with a mill file trying to remove material from inside the bodyshell, just to get the motor to fit.
There is old… and there is OLD! If you need to change the motor, it sounds to me that you are in the latter category. I believe the rule is, if the motor has a gold color, then it should be fine… Otherwise, I agree with the previous comment about considering buying new ones. I converted a few for fun - sentimental reasons really. But when you include the motor, the new lights, new wheels and perhaps new shaft, and shipping costs, it becomes expensive for a model that is basically outdated. And add DCC to that?
Yet, they still fetch a decent price on Ebay. Go figure.
At the time I did most of mine, there weren’t a lot of other similar locos from which to choose, so some of mine, especially the TH&Bs, were done for sentimental reasons.
However, I never bothered with working lights and preferred (still do) the original Athearn wheelsets. The Mashimi motor shafts were, I think, bushed to fit into the Athearn drivetrain, so very little expense for that.
As for DCC, not at all interested.
I often re-motor brass locomotives, though, or replace the magnets in ones with older open-frame motors, both for my own locos and those of a few friends.
I love screwing around with my locomotives to see what I can do with them. Early on I was really into the Canon EN22 motor. Quite by accident about 15 years ago I bought one from an electronics part house.
It was listed as a miniature (no manufacture) 12 volt motor for $1.19 after I received it and figured out what I had I ordered 20 more then another 20, I should have bought all they had.
As most of you have probably found out the Canon EN22s are pretty hard to find now days. I have been buying the Mabuchi SF-266SA motors off eBay for under $4 each. I did a lot of testing and comparing the SF-266SA to the Canon EN22 and other than the Mabuchi is a bit more efficient (slightly less current) and a slightly higher RPM I can’t tell any difference.
The SF-266SA is a single shaft motor same as the Canon EN22R11N1B motor.
I have installed 12 of the Mabuchi SF-266SA motors and they work equal to the Canon EN22.
Would those dual motor setups be suitable for DCC or do they pull too much current?
Also, have you tried the black 5-pole, dual-shaft motors on ebay that have the longer shafts? I don’t know if we can link here, but they are called:
DC 12V-24V 22200RPM High Speed 5-Pole Rotor Motor Long Dual Shaft Axis DIY Toy
I’ve heard some folks speak well of them, and they look good.
I’ve got a batch of the motors-with-large-flywheels that are advertised as HO motors on the way from AliExpress. They only come to about $8 each with flywheels, but you have to buy in packs of 5.
The word “TOY” bothers me. The 12/24 volt bothers me also as does the very high RPM. I’ve never run across a motor with “TOY” in the advertisement that was any good for a model railroad locomotive. “TOY” and “HOBBY MOTOR” are key words to me.
Most steam locomotives require 5k to 6K RPM, Athearn BB motors are 12k RPM but run nicely using the 7K RPM Mabuchis. I’m not into high speed model railroading so a scale 60MPH is OK with me.
The Mabuchi motors draw much less than half the current of a non can motor factory motor. A pair of Mabuchi SF-266 motors draws under 600ma at full load, most DCC decoders are rated at over 1000ma or one amp. I have at least 30 dual motor locomotives that run great in DCC mode, I’ve never dinged a decoder since I went DCC in 2006. I received one decoder that died from infant mortality that the manufactured replaced quickly.
The Mabuchi FK-280SA 14200 is 13,000 RPM with dual shafts and works great in an Athearn frame.
Thank you so much for your recommendation of the Mabuchi FK-280SA motor. I received an order of four motors ($11 including shipping) yesterday and spent this morning remotoring an Athearn Geep just like yours (5641 in Southern Pacific livery). Wow, what a difference! I had some styrene tube on hand that had a nice interference fit inside the Athearn flywheels and a careful reaming of the inner diameter using a 2mm drill bit gave a nice interference fit on the Mabuchi motor shafts. I found that sitting a round side of the Mabuchi motor atop the inner bevel of the original Athearn press-in motor mounts positioned the motor at just the right height. I placed a pad of .090" styrene in the motor well to support the other end of the can motor and used hot glue to anchor the motor in place. Perfect! I had already installed an NCE D13SRJ decoder with a TCS KA4 Keep Alive with the original Athearn motor. However, the original Athearn motor had become so weak that you constantly had to adjust the loco speed on inclines and declines. I just ran the remotored loco pulling seven cars around my layout and it smoothly crawled around the entire layout at speed step 10 of 128 without any hesitation and little speed change on the grades. I may just have to purchase more of these motors and upgrade my entire Blue Box fleet! Thanks again Mel.
I want to thank you for your post!!! I would never have thought of using Styrene tubing for the shim. The Evergreen 224 (⅛”) tubing is a perfect fit to reduce the Athearn flywheel 3.15mm ID to 2mm OD motor shaft.
Absolutely zero imbalance, perfect fit. A very thin coat of CA or Super Glue on the 2mm motor shaft then the same very light coat on the tubing and it fits perfect.
Today, I remotored a pair of Athearn EMD F7 locos I’d been running in a consist but had become quite noisy and couldn’t figure out what the intermittent noise was. Once I removed the Athearn motor from one and spun it, I discovered the noise was coming from the motor itself (worn out bearings?). Instead of trying to mount the new Mabuchi motors on a round side as I did with the Geep, I stacked four pieces of .040" styrene sheet inside the motor well of each frame to produce a flat mounting pad. A little hot glue to hold the pad to the frame and a dab of hot glue to hold a flat side of the new can motor to the mounting pad. Piece of cake! These two locos had older mismatched decoders so I replaced them with NCE D13SRJ’s. I also redid the headlights and Mars lights for a better look. Just finished programming and consisting these two together again and, Wow, do they run nicely! They both crawl along at a smooth 1-2 mph in speed step 1 of 128 in both directions. Now I have to order more Mabuchi motors and find someone who still has more D13SRJ decoders (of course NCE has discontinued them).
