Reroute: A Study of Two mainlines

[Mr_Railman]

Good morning, or evening, or whenever you’re reading this.

Yesterday I heard a rumor that Canadian Pacific trains 276 and 277, from Bensenville Illinois, to Huron, South Dakota, are going to be rerouted onto the EX-IC&E line along the Mississippi river. The reason being said is because of traffic congestion. Now I can see their point of view on the matter, but I lo did some research myself.

First off Mileage. Both routes were measured on Google Earth using the Path Tool

The CP line through Wisconsin is approximately 277 miles from tower B12 to the end of the connecting track at La Crescent

For the IC&E Line, the mileage is approximately 285 miles.

The difference is 8 miles between the numbers shown above

Next off: Condition. This includes some track speed as well.

The Canadian Pacific/SOO Line has long turned their Wisconsin lines into Welded rail, this gives the line a speed rating of 50 MPH for manifest freight trains (70 MPH for 182/183, but they cancelled those two trains), also it is noted that this route has plenty of double track to ensure that the trains are moved in a timely matter. I also know that there are several construction projects going on throughout the C&M Sub. Two bride replacement projects, one on the UP Milwaukee Sub at Shermer Road, making a 10 MPH speed limit, and another on the C&M Sub near the IL/WI Border, with Form B speed restrictions. the one on the C&M always has single track, whereas the UP bridge is…different every week. Both projects will take two years to complete. Another project in the works is resurfacing several grade crossings along Metras Milwaukee District North Line, each crossing takes about one and a half weeks to complete.

The IC&E line has bolted rail, which gives it a speed rating of 40 MPH, this is when it cuts through Illinois. The top speeed along the river i believe is till 40 MPH, but ther

[henry6]

There are many reasons that could account for this…you mention congestion. Despite shorter route, higher speeds, a constant movement at any speed could be faster. It could also be that the priority is now lower and route gets it out of the way of higher priorities. Or it could mean that the schedule has to be slowed because of connections further on. There are so many reasons that only the railroad knows, and maybe not for sure either!

[Ironeagle2006]

Here is something to think about for Modern Logistics People. You have 2 loads a week going to LA From Aurora IL with an Extra Stop in North Platte NE in Trucks. Now West of North Platte you can Drop on 76 to 70 and go across Colorado and then Grab the 15 or stay on 80 to 15 at SLC. Which way are you going to go Load is not Altitude Sensitive or Haz-Mat which would stop you from using 70 with the Ike Tunnel. So which way are you going to Route your Trucks.

The Differance in Mileage is only 40 Miles longer with the I 80 to 15 Routing. However the Grade Profile is LESS and also in the Winter 80 is Much less likely to get Closed down with weather. In all my time I ran west doing runs like this I only took 70 across Colorado 1 Time in the Winter as there was a Blizzard approaching WY and if I hurried I could get into the Valleys where I would be safe in Colorado. My father I was running team with at the time woke up as I hit the Ike Tunnel and was like WTH are we doing in Colorado in Winter. Then he heard the Weather report for I-80 and went Oh I see why.

I Bet CP is doing this for one reason called they can free up space on their Primary Mainline and also 8 miles is less than 1 Hour even at 40 MPH rating. Plus they may have more Interline Traffic they could pick up with doing this. EHH is not rerouting this train for Nothing he is doing this because of a Plan. You are only seeing part of his plan he is thinking 6-9 MONTHS Ahead of YOU.

I remember in the Late 90’s when Krebs was pouring all that cash into Double tracking the BNSF Transcon Mainline and upgrading it the Motive Power and such. He lost his Job when the BOD being Shortsighted and mostly Grienstien allies got rid of him. Now he was proven right they have the Fastest service from the West coast ports to the Midwest for anything Intermodal and UP is being Forced to Spend Billions to catch u

[beaulieu]

Good morning, or evening, or whenever you’re reading this.

Yesterday I heard a rumor that Canadian Pacific trains 276 and 277, from Bensenville Illinois, to Huron, South Dakota, are going to be rerouted onto the EX-IC&E line along the Mississippi river. The reason being said is because of traffic congestion. Now I can see their point of view on the matter, but I lo did some research myself.

Not a rumor the trains will be rerouted and downgraded. The train numbers will change to 470/471

First off Mileage. Both routes were measured on Google Earth using the Path Tool

The CP line through Wisconsin is approximately 277 miles from tower B12 to the end of the connecting track at La Crescent

For the IC&E Line, the mileage is approximately 285 miles.

The difference is 8 miles between the numbers shown above

Good job on the measuring, it is 276.3 miles from B17 to River Jct. via Milwaukee, and 286.1 via Savannah, IL

[quote]

Next off: Condition. This includes some track speed as well.

The Canadian Pacific/SOO Line has long turned their Wisconsin lines into Welded rail, this gives the line a speed rating of 50 MPH for manifest freight trains (70 MPH for 182/183, but they cancelled those two trains), also it is noted that this route has plenty of double track to ensure that the trains are moved in a timely matter. I also know that there are several construction projects going on throughout the C&M Sub. Two bride replacement projects, one on the UP Milwaukee Sub at Shermer Road, making a 10 MPH speed limit, and another on the C&M Sub near the IL/WI Border, with Form B speed restrictions. the one on the C&M always has single track, whereas the UP bridge is…different every week. Both projects will take two years to complete. Another project in the works is resurfacing several grade crossings along Metras Milwaukee District North

[mudchicken]

Jointed Rail/ Bolted rail makes no difference in track speed to FRA. Surface condition does.

Southwest Chief (Amtrak #3 AND #4) are still running 79 MPH on jointed 132# rail laid in the 1950’s and used to run 90 MPH with ATS.

[PNWRMNM]

The construction projects on the main line may well be sufficient cause to reroute this train. Perhaps for reasons of delay to this train but also for delays to other trains that the combination of construction and this train is causing on the original route.

Mac

[Mr_Railman]

An update.

276/277 will be downgraded to low priority manifest train numbers, and their route be about 50 miles longer due to dipping south in Iowa. I would not be surprised if they put yet another crew on Furlough (they already did for about 15)

[cx500]

…

All Intermodal Trains between Chicago and Minneapolis are and have been limited to 60mph for many years. That includes 182/183, and 198/199. I mentioned the change in symbols and status already, the main reason for the change is that drastic measures have been necessary to keep 198 and 199 on time on their more expedited schedules, and this has meant bigger delays in the rest of the trains. It was decided to reroute 276(470)/277(471) to ease the congestion, as most of its traffic is low priority bulk type traffic.

Those top priority expedited trains make for great publicity, but all the rest of the traffic suffers. I wonder if the unhappy customers that switch to other modes or railroads will mean a net loss. CNR has a lot of essentially monopoly territory in Canada so could get away with it; CPR has a much more competitive situation.

John

[Mr_Railman]

It’s funny because CNR is trying to get back its lost customers under new management. You can operate a railroad efficiently and quickly without losing clientel.

[beaulieu]

Those top priority expedited trains make for great publicity, but all the rest of the traffic suffers. I wonder if the unhappy customers that switch to other modes or railroads will mean a net loss. CNR has a lot of essentially monopoly territory in Canada so could get away with it; CPR has a much more competitive situation.

John

Then CP has Amtrak between St. Paul and Chicago, with higher top speed(meaning more overtakes) and higher priority, plus greater variability in offering time from BNSF on the west and Amtrak on the east.

[MP173]

You mentioned Metra in passing, but there is a curfew in which freight trains cannot run…this takes away about 6 - 8 hours of day south of Roundout.

The 6-8 hours are just an estimate, anyone please correct me.

Ed

[Murphy_Siding]

It’s funny because CNR is trying to get back its lost customers under new management. You can operate a railroad efficiently and quickly without losing clientel.

Getting back lost customers might not be as important as getting back lost customers that helped the bottom line. It could be that CP is changing things to either make more money on the traffic it has now, or making room for more higher paying traffic in the future.

Comapanies are always trying to make more money on their existing customers. Sometimes, that means raising prices on money losing operations until they reach the profitable level, or that business goes somewhere else, and can be replaced with more lucrative business.

In the end, it might be that CP has a plan, and we just don’t know what that plan is.

[Mr_Railman]

It’s funny because CNR is trying to get back its lost customers under new management. You can operate a railroad efficiently and quickly without losing clientel.

Getting back lost customers might not be as important as getting back lost customers that helped the bottom line. It could be that CP is changing things to either make more money on the traffic it has now, or making room for more higher paying traffic in the future.

Comapanies are always trying to make more money on their existing customers. Sometimes, that means raising prices on money losing operations until they reach the profitable level, or that business goes somewhere else, and can be replaced with more lucrative business.

In the end, it might be that CP has a plan, and we just don’t know what that plan is.

Well whatever the plans are, they include stopping the upgrade of the DM&E Huron Subdivision from 10 MPH. My guess is that they’re making room for more unit trains, since that is the bulk of their shipments. I’ve been noticing more Coke trains on the C&M Sub, as well as grain trains lately, but that might be because of harvest. I also won’t be surprised if the CP taps into the transportation of that North Dakota crude.

[beaulieu]

Well whatever the plans are, they include stopping the upgrade of the DM&E Huron Subdivision from 10 MPH. My guess is that they’re making room for more unit trains, since that is the bulk of their shipments. I’ve been noticing more Coke trains on the C&M Sub, as well as grain trains lately, but that might be because of harvest. I also won’t be surprised if the CP taps into the transportation of that North Dakota crude.

There are more Crude Oil trains passing by you on the C&M Sub than there are Coke or Ethanol trains. Look for the UN 1267 placard on the tank cars. CP is already big on Crude Oil transportation out of North Dakota.