Thanks for your responses on the previous related thread. On the QSI Yahoo group site, I commented my concerns regarding the lack of a turbocharger sound for the 2nd Gen EMD units equipped with 645E3 power systems. That would be the GP40, GP40-2, GP39, SD39, SD40, SD40-2, SD40T-2, F40PH, and all related 16 cylinder systems. Same for the 20 cylinder 45 class. As Steve recommended on the previous thread, I installed the Q2 Firmware upgrade menu and played the sound samples. Still, no turbo sound for the mentioned units.
Here is the response from QSI:
Tony,
This is “QSI Management” responding
Thank you for your support of our products!
Of course - QSI tries pretty hard to be prototypically accurate.
Sometimes the sounds are completely accurate. Sometimes they are the
best we can get or represent the best knowledge we had at the time.
Regarding turbo specifically:
Sometimes engine manufacturers explicitly ask us to make the motor
have turbo sounds by default. Sometimes they don’t want turbo.
Sometimes they have it right and sometimes not. This is why QSI made
the turbo charger a separate sound (THAT was not easy to get) and let
the customer set it as they wish (ON/OFF or something in-between )
It is settable from the “Individual Sounds” panel.
Here’s a challenge for you guys (and gals): when you hear that a
manufacturer we service is coming out with a locomotive - by all means
please discuss it here including any details that may help QSI and the
loco manufacturer know what it did and what it sounded like. In many
cases you folks has an amazing depth of knowledge about specific
engines. We can all benefit from this. It doesn’t necessarily mean
that the loco will be exactly like what is said here - but, I assure
you that it will help us all get it right.
Was good to see that QSI does take an interest in our input. Here is what I wrote back to Mr. Quinn:
Hello Pat,
Thank you very much for responding and for willing to read input. I
spent over an hour listening to your sound samples on the Q2 sound
scheme list and noticed the following regarding the turbochargers for
EMD.
I played sound schemes 311 and 319, which has the turbo sound
listed for EMD 567 equipped diesels produced after the GP20. The
turbo sound is clearly audible.
In playing each scheme I turned down all of the slide bars except for
the turbo. The sound produced isn’t the EMD turbo. Please listen
carefully to it. It sounds more like a roots-blown EMD diesel, like
the version used for the GP38/GP38-2.
I hope I’m not violating any rules by posting the following. Please
listen to these two youtube vid clips.
Mr. Quinn hasn’t responded yet, but as soon as he does, I will post his response here. Overall, I enjoyed sampling the Q2 sounds that can be uploaded into the “Revolution” decoder. I realize that it costs the manufacturer money, but I hope that QSI can get
You see, that is where you are wrong. You CANNOT listen to them beyond idle anymore in the programmer. You actually have to upload the sound file to a Revolution BEFORE you know what it sounds like. Because that process takes about 10 minutes, I don’t have that time to waste with my customers anymore.
Before you were able listen to the motor rev up and down on the programmer. My customers could then easily choose what they wanted. Now, they have to wait 10 minutes before they say no…and then I have to try the next sound file…a huge hassle.
Sorry, QSI has it wrong again. Also, QSI, where are my steam files you promised me over a year ago? Because of these issues, I have trouble recommending this decoder to anyone.
David, I’ve been playing with the new sounds on the Q2 programmer. I’ve been revving the prime mover sounds up and down with no problem. Am I missing or misunderstanding something here?
OK…version 1.8 of the Q2 upgrade software wont allow for previewing the motor, but 1.61 will.
I downloaded the files and listened to them. It doesnt sound like an SD 40 at all! It sounds like someone is whistleing along with the engine noise. Nothing like an SD 40.
If you want to hear what and SD40 sounds like, then go and listen to the Tsunami sound samples.
For EMD sounds, the Revolution is no where close to where it should or could be.
I have to disagree. I spent a great deal of of time around prototype EMDs, especially 2nd generation units. I still have my personal tape recordings dating back to the late 70s. The QSI EMD upgrade, imho, sounds authentic. Remember, these files were recorded from prototype 645 series equipped Florida East Coast Railroad units, a number of which reportedly have received mechanical rebuilds and updates. So the character of certain prime mover sounds may be altered slightly. I’ve seen this first hand on diesel transit buses and trucks. If that’s the case, it wouldn’t be QSI’s fault and it would still be prototypical.
From what I’ve read before in TRAINS magazine, a good number of Canadian EMDs have had turbochargers modified or even removed. Could it be that these are the units you’re using as a comparative benchmark.
Yes, I’ve heard the the Diesel Tsunamis before and was impressed. I’m especially impressed with the GE sound scheme, as the famous “chug” is captured well. I am disappointed in the Tsunami “pop off” which is a quick spurt., On many older prototype diesel locomotives the pop off is loud and actually lasts a few seconds…
You already know that the Tsunamis are a “packaged” item. You can’t upload anything into them and it is difficult to synchronize engine rpms with the locomotive’s movements. Have you had success in this area? I do plan on buying at least one Tsunami (for my Genesis FP45) as well as a several QSI Revolutions (for my P2K E-units).
IMHO, QSI is making a hard effort to please its customers and so far these latest updates are a good step in the right direction.
As someone who has been a Revolution buyer and supporter from the beginning, I must say that using the word “hard” to describe QSI’s efforts in their sound files is a huge exaggeration. In fact, I find that they are just doing enough to get by.
From day one, all of their sound files are just remixes of the old ones. In fact, they are no different from what they pumped into their V6 chips. Just remixes.
If you put a QSI-equipped SD40 beside a Tsunami-equipped SD40, I have to say that the Tsunami wins hands down on ALL accounts. It sounds like a locomotive from startup to shut down. The QSI sounds like a generic motor on start up (and sounds nothing like an actual startup sequence) then they add a turbo whistle over top of it when the motor reaches idle. The turbo then just whistles along with the motor, rather than a delay like the real thing (567).
Remember that I have purchased many Revolutions for myself and also the programmer. QSI has my money. I was promised download ability (and got it…to an extent), set-able light levels (you can only set the dim setting), steam sound files (not available as a download) and other features. They have my money, I don’t have the product I was promised.
In comparison, the LokSound product is superior to the revolution as a down loadable product…even the Digitrax is better in terms of download features. In both the Lok and Digitrax examples, you are able to introduce your own sound files and also you can reprogram the decoder to change the way the unit uses the sounds. QSI allows you to introduce ONE sound that you can play with a function key…wooopie…
With QSI, you must use thier sounds…no way around it. If they were smart, they would actually allow us (the 3rd party) to introduce our own motor sounds, horns and such. The software is there, it is just that QSI doesn’t want us to.
Quote from David-If you put a QSI-equipped SD40 beside a Tsunami-equipped SD40, I have to say that the Tsunami wins hands down on ALL accounts.
You know that’s not a fair comparison. The BLI SD40 was released a few years back with onboard sound. QSI was summarily chewed out by many modelers regarding the sound scheme. The latest update, which sounds far better, is for the aftermarket decoders including the Revolution. QSI aftermarket decoders were not available back then.
Quote from David - (and sounds nothing like an actual startup sequence) then they add a turbo whistle over top of it when the motor reaches idle.
I listened to file 331 carefully. The turbocharger and prime mover sound like they’re properly synchronized.
What do you base your comment on? 2nd gen EMDs in top or well maintained condition start-up up with a faster idle, then slow down a few seconds later. However, as 2nd gen EMDs age, the electrical circuit that controls that feature stops working if shop forces don’t maintain it. Today many older EMD units startup without the quick “idle up and down” sequence and go directly to idle mode. Though disappearing quickly we still get plenty of old EMDs here in CSX territory.
Quote from David - So, I invite those who are still reading this post to go onto youtube and search for sounds from Sd40s and other units with the 645. Then listen to the Soundtraxx recordings and make your own decisions. -
Glad you mentioned that as you reminded me of something…I commend Soundtraxx for introducing additional d
Quote from David-If you put a QSI-equipped SD40 beside a Tsunami-equipped SD40, I have to say that the Tsunami wins hands down on ALL accounts.
You know that’s not a fair comparison. The BLI SD40 was released a few years back with onboard sound. QSI was summarily chewed out by many modelers regarding the sound scheme. The latest update, which sounds far better, is for the aftermarket decoders including the Revolution. QSI aftermarket decoders were not available back then.
Where did I mention BLI? I was comparing a Revolution Equipped SD40 with a Tsunami Equipped SD40. I have installed many Revs into SD40s (customer choice), so I think I am allowed to express my opinion.
Quote from David - (and sounds nothing like an actual startup sequence) then they add a turbo whistle over top of it when the motor reaches idle.
I listened to file 331 carefully. The turbocharger and prime mover sound like they’re properly synchronized.
What do you base your comment on? 2nd gen EMDs in top or well maintained condition start-up up with a faster idle, then slow down a few seconds later. However, as 2nd gen EMDs age, the electrical circuit that controls that feature stops working if shop forces don’t maintain it. Today many older EMD units startup without the quick “idle up and down” sequence and go directly to idle mode. Though disappearing quickly we still get plenty of old EMDs here in CSX territory.
Listen to the sound file carefully…the startup sequence is silly. I live in SD40 central. I know what they sound like.
Wow! Relax David. No need to take my above responses as attacks…
Quote from David: “There is no way what you heard…” David, .now that is presumptous of you stating that you know what I heard.
I did hear Diesel Tsumani equipped HO units with excellent programming and baffled speaker setups that were installed by an experienced computer electronics professional who puts on DCC clinics for a prototype modelers group. The crisp sounds were impressive. My point was simply that Tsunami has its shortcomings as well, which I’ve already pointed out. If you look at my posts on other threads, I’ve stated that as far as sound the Diesel Tsunami was excellent, overall…
What I was attempting to convey was that, imho, you were brick slamming the Revolution’s short comings while I posted QSI’s efforts in making sound scheme upgrades. You scarcely mentioned the Revolution’s positive points while praising the Tsunami’s good qualities with little mention of its shortcomings. You were virtually equating the Revolution with an MRC sound decoder which would be like comparing a Toyota Camry to a Ford Taurus.
Quote from David: At least get the quote right… Uh, I was “paraphrasing”. I have the movie and I knew the exact quote but I was implying that we as forum members have “some” power of influence with newbies on decisions to purchase model railroad products. Not “great” power. I thought you might have picked up on that.
Regarding price: I did a comparison. Here in my railroading neck of the woods the Revolutions are priced cheaper than Tsunami.
Quote from David: Here is where I have a problem with this po
Why twist my words like that? MRC decoders are completely UNRELIABLE. QSI decoders are in a different league. I expect MORE from QSI decoders and if QSI got off their rear-ends and did some proper sound files, then it would be one awsome product! Havent I been saying that all along? No where did I say it was virtually crap like MRC decoders. Why am I even defending this?
Yes, we have influence on these forums, that is for certain. But when you use the word “quote” then mis-quote…well…then you need to be quote-corrected.
Which Tsunami? The light board version is much cheaper than the wrapped version. Where I come from, the Revolution is always 20% more expensive than the Tsunami (light board to light board version).
Well, you are trying to discredit me and are questioning my expertise. That is wholly unfair and a personal attack as this is how I make a partial living. My intention on these forums is to inform from experience.
OK David, now I’ve been made aware by someone who read this thread as to what may be going on…
I was wondering why your responses were on the hard-charging side. “It could be” that it was because some of your customers likely view the threads on this forum, so you immedetly went into defense mode as you might have been concerned that your credibility was being challenged. . Well, if this is the case, it wasn’t my intent to put you down. .
But remember…re-read your replies on page one. You were the one that first engaged with this comment: - I still wouldnt hold my breath. QSI tends to short cut every sound file they put out there. Notice that you expressed that in a “blanket statement” form. It “seemed” like an attempt to slam QSI and divert attention towards Soundtraxx.
After a back and forth posting discussion between us, you stated that I was trying to discredit you and was questioning “your expertise”. That was not my intent.
By the way, this comment caught my attention: -Why cannot I give my opinion without first qualifying that it my opinion? Why do I have to qualify as such?
OK if it’s about something of financial significance, why not? A lot of our forum brethren often include, “imho” when providing feedback on expensive model railroad related products…
However, David, if your expertise is ever questioned, what’s the big deal? [;)] I spent 15 years working in the transit industry and have been an industrial-tech instructor for the past 11 years. I’m a believer in presenting a down-to-earth, humble attitude if and when my credentials are questioned: No big deal. I learned from wise old timers years ago that
I think the original posting was about the Turbo charger effects.[D)]
Speaking of this I do have two of the recent run of the Atlas GP40-2 and they do have the turbo whine.[yeah]
I spent alot of time to set all the sound CV`s to get the volumes down to normal human hearing levels.[banghead]
The sounds were set so high I thought my eardrums were going to get blown out through my butt.[%-)]
The turbo whine was so loud that I could not hear any other sound.[wow]
Once I managed to turn down the screaming jet engine noise to a respectable level I was able to hear all the other engine and gadget and gizmo sounds.[:)]