Other than getting trains running ASAP, it there a reason why once a spline is in place that landscaping can’t take place before trackwork?
Why not? As long as you have the sub road bed in why not?
It would reduce the amount of clean up especially on track work…
I believe scenery should always be done last only because your always rethinking your track design. How many people actually design a layout and then while laying track you rethink your design and change something. If the scenery was already done then you would have to redo that area as well. Now after saying that I do have areas on my layout that I’ve started the scenery on and I’m still not finished laying all the track work yet.
Dave,That is one problem that should never happen…By using solid LDEs and thinking ahead there is no reason why track needs to be redesigned once a layout is started.
Advance layout design has matured beyond that point.
The sad part is many modelers still stumble in layout design due to poor LDEs and NOT planing ahead.Even when we redesigned the club’s layout we stuck with the plan because we did our home work ahead of any building to insure our plan would work.The layout was up and running-without scenery-in 12 months.
While in a perfect world, all things go as planned, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to imply that something must be wrong with your layout planning process if you decide to make a change in things as you go. It might, but it could just easily won’t be. Rather, once you see things laid out, you may change your mind about where you want things or about how buildings will fit in or any one of a number of other good reasons.
I’m probably better than average in conceptualizing things on paper that will eventually be 3-D, given that I do have some training in drafting and design, but this still didn’t prevent me from making changes when things started getting real under my hands as I built. I don’t think this implies that making such changes means I or anyone else who makes such a change is somehow lacking in basic model railroad skills.
Moving on…
One very good reason for building scenery after your trackwork is in place is wiring. If scenery isn’t in the way, a lot of wiring can be done from above. This is especially so with control panels for me, but then that’s just the way I do things. I have a bad back and bad right shoulder, so I try to avoid working over my head as much as possible.
Think of this…How often does a architect or contractor change plans once a plan is finalized? Not every often if the architect wishes to keep his job or the contractor wishes to remain in business.
The same principles should apply to us as we build our layouts.[:D]
Here’s my opinion here and that’s all it is. First, I have and will always do my track work before doing scenery. Why? Simply because I believe that despite all the beautiful scenery, the key to layout enjoyment is to be able to operate trains on good solid track work. One, at least myself, needs room to lay, wire and adjust track. Tunnels, cuts, telephone poles, buildings, you name it, don’t need to be in the way of this. Also damage is bound to get done to scenery if done otherwise and I would rather protect the track work or clean up the track work, then try to repair scenery. But that’s me. Like the saying goes, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Sorry Bubba (=^…^=). Ken
Want to hear a howl? Be around when a client asks for a change, and the architect and contractor tell him how much it’s going to cost him!
As for scenery before track, John Allen went there - but how many of us are at that level of modeling confidence? Most garden railroaders, for openers. In their case, the scenery is usually there first, and they have to move it around before they can lay track.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
It aint the track, it’s making the track look like it was placed AFTER the scenery is in. Perhaps by breaking up that long straightaway into something that might curve and follow a river for a short distance.
But track, wiring first. Always. When everything is perfect and set, then cover it all up.
After I laid my splines, I felt it prudent to actually lay the tracks to ensure a decent fit, and thence to wire them. I figured if I were to have to rip out any tracks, or worse the splines, I didn’t want to have to undo any wiring as well…what a waste of time! Also, moving splines means destruction of scenery, at least with my ground goop scenery. So, the sensible progression is: plan, erect the splines, lay the tracks entirely, power them and prove them, then wire them permanently once you are satisfied with the plan’s performance, and then enjoy the fun part not having to fear taking a bunch of it out.
Can’t say that works for everyone…obviously not. But…
ACtually, I suppose this happens a lot. But, even if not, you are comparing a professional with training and experience to someone who has at most designed just a few layouts (unless we are talking about a pro, which we’re not, generally.) I think that it is entirely reasonable to change things a bit when we see how it looks in real life, and not just on paper.
Now I see the big smile, and think that your tounge may have been nearly, if not totally implanted in your cheek, so I’ll let you off, this time.[:P]
Architects go to college for 5 years. I’m not sure how contractors acquire their knowledge/skills, but I’m sure it’s not quick. Most of us building model railroads are learning as we go. Sure once you have built a few layouts or a substantial part of a large one you may have the knowledge/experience to so you can build scenery before track. But if you have to ask the question, you probably aren’t there yet.
Also, remember a building is built in a certain order - wiring and plumbing go in before sheet rock and paint.
As usual just my [2c] falling off my [soapbox]
Enjoy
Paul
I don’t know about anyone else, but I cannot lay track without screwing up anything delicate anywhere near it. I proved that to myself years ago.
It’s called “changing your mind,” Brakie. Ever do that? Ever go out to dinner thinking you’d have chicken, then opting for steak instead? or pasta? or whatever.
If you have the depth of knowledge necessary to develop a plan that you don’t notice improvements you can make to it during construction, and/or have the discipline to not make those changes, my hat’s off to your strength of will.
But for most, I think there’s a lot of learning as you go, and changes are made as new things are learned. After almost 40 years in the hobby, I know I’m still learning! I haven’t torn out any already-built stuff, though I have made changes to my plan as I go).
Compromise… do a bit of one thing, then do a bit of another thing, then another. You get some sort of progress all over the place then… [(-D]
That might be the way of things.
I am not yet at the point in my practice where I can pull a lot of money out. I have a lot I can do in terms of structures scenery etc because I already own those things. But buying all the track and materials to build turnouts is a chunk of change.
But I still have the backdrop to paint and the furniture/benchwork to build so I still have some time for things to fall into place. And it will, I’m certain.
I have one basic philosophy when it comes to model railroading… do what makes me happy. Everyone told me that to make it easy on myself I had to follow the basic order of layout building: backdrop, benchwork, track, electrical, structures, scenery. So far I have no bacdrop complete, 75% benchwork complete, 75% track complete, 90% electrical complete…etc. And I have alot more done than those who told me how I should do it. Laying track gets boring and I find Scenery a pain. I get more done on my layout because I am more enthusiastic about it and I put more time into it. I never decide to not go to work on it because I don’t feel like doing scenery. If that is how I feel today, I work on more benchwork.
There are drawbacks. When I go to do my backdrop after all the scenery is in I am going to have a difficult time. Oh well, the way I see it I had trains running on the layout over 2 years before I would have had I followed the official procedure. Do what makes you happy, this is a hobby, not a career. No one says you need to put in the plumbing before the drywall.
My company works with architects frequently. I do not know how often it is the customer and how often it is the architect, but they send changes to us frequently. Some architects more so than others. School projects also have more changes than commercial projects. Therefore it seems to be a pretty good mix. There is one (large) architecture company that I hate to work on their projects becuase I know the design will change several times.
It may be worth doing a few operating sessions first, before going all-out with scenery.
Unless you have your layout professionally designed, there’s little guarantee that in actual practice, your layout will operate as panned. By that I mean sufficent staging, runaraound, cross-overs, etc. Tray it out for a while, and if your crews have to do some un-prototypical moves (as they do on my layout), consider changing a track or two.
Whats all the fuss?? Do what works for you. Part of the fun in building a model railroad is to experiment and try something new. I am always changing my mind, thinking about better ways of routing the trains, etc… If any one thinks that once you design something there will be no changes they are sadly mistaken. No matter how much preplanning, designing, measuring and double checking there is always room for improvement and changes.