I would like to have a review of this layout that I am planning. I can’t think of a more qualified place to do it than here. I want to see if I have missed anything, or if there is something more I can do for action. Comments and/or suggestions are wanted.
The conditions/limits are as follows:
Modular design so I can move/modify it in the future, if need be. 9 modules (in white). All turnouts, bridges, crossings, structures, etc. must be within a module.
Room/space is 8ft x 16ft with 3 walls closed in. No chance of extending/modifying space. I wish I could do something more fancy, but this is the space I get.
There will be 2 prototypical Streamliners that I would like to run at Streamliner speeds, occasionally. 30R min on the main and yard accesses. 28R everywhere else with a few exceptions for freight, engines and single cars only (in blue). Nothing under 22R.
The structures shown do not necessarily represent what I want. I just put a few on to show where I might do some kind of structures.
I am considering elevating the main section above the yard a little for some added dimension.
Looks nice - similar in many ways to the 6x16 double oval I’m running, although I do envy you your yard. And you could always add a dogbone and run a helix to a second deck later if you get the itch!
You have the opportunity of letting two trains run while making up another in that yard. There are folks that will take issue with that, but I used to like letting a train run out on the main (I now have a smaller shelf layout which is limited as a point-to-point).
But you are looking for ideas and/or suggestions, so here’s two: I think that you might want to put another spur track down parallel to the roundhouse lead to be a service track - delivering the diesel fuel tank cars or loads of coal or whatever for tending to the locomotives. Second, on one of the corners on the “left” as one looks at the plan, a spur track in your choice of direction into one of those corners could be a “connection” or interchange with another railroad and generate traffic.
Welcome to retirement. While I’m not getting as much model RR time as I thought I would, I’m certainly getting more of it that when I was working that 50+ hours a week or more…
One big issue to consider: Entry. As you get older, it gets harder and harder to crawl under the layout to get inside. Consider a liftup/dropdown section so you can easily walk in, or alternately if the layout is high enough and the floor surface permits it, you can sit in a rolling chair and slide under. Either way, if it avoids ducking under.
Swayin: Thanks for the kind words. Excuse my ignorance. I have been modeling and creating with my hands since I was 7, but I am a newbie railroader. I know what a helix is, but what do you mean by " a dogbone". I can’t visualize how I would run a 30R helix somewhere in that room, on top of what’s there.
Bill: I wanted my streamliners to do what they do - run. It’s my intent to have them hauling a$$ on the main while I play with my GP50 and F3s in the yard and at Happy Creek. Both great suggestions. Should get that spur in now while it’s easy, so I’ll be ready in the future. I will incorporate. Thanks.
Randy: I am old. That’s why there is a hinged drop in on the left end. That’s the end with the open wall, and my access. Thanks for the interest.
A number of similararities between your thinking and mine. Continuous running long through freight or passenger, while working the big yard or yard in a smaller town.
I might thinik of a single or double ended siding across from your industries in Happy Creek. Could be just a team track or also serve a small customer. Give you a little more to do while switching that location.
Getting to your turntable looks complex, but may be the best way to get that amount of yard track in. Could you put your through tracks below the main part of the yard? Would have to cross the yard main to get to engene service area, but since your mainline is above all of the yard, shouldn’t cause traffic congestion. Maybe someone with more planning experience will take a look at it.
Will you limit yourself to one “storage” track off the turntable? Give you a place to store the non-working loco out of the way. Servicing structure over at least one of them?
I rarely comment on others plans because I do not feel I have enough expertise in layout planning. But here I am making an exception because I very much like what I see. I think you have done a great job. The only change I would make is to put another line to the turntable. Keep us posted on your progress.[tup]
Just a short remark about the yard. I miss one or two drill tracks. On the left hand is a track leading to the yard. That track is somewhat shorter than the top yard track but it may function as a drill track. On the right side is only a very short track that runs into the main line soon. Drill operations on that side will block the main line.
You designed run around on both sides of the yard. What are they intended to be used for? Are that caboose tracks?
Actually there is quite a bit of similarity between that plan and my previous layout. I used an 8x12 space and had 2 lines for continuous running with > 30" radius curves to handle full length passenger cars. One of my 12’ sides was accessible from both sides though, and I did design things with some attention to the idea that I would later expand it to fill the whole basement. The whole thing is under the old stuff at the bottom of my web site.
Basically, the layout is a twice-around style with a nice yard. However, you may want to think a little more critically about how you are going to use that yard. Two of the main issues have already been mentioned - lack of storage tracks off the turntable and lack of a drill track to work the yard. The most likely candidate for a drill track is your lead track into the yard on the left hand side. Assuming that the two stub-ended tracks near the center ailse will be used as your sorting tracks, the drill track on the left can not reach those stub-ended tracks. You’d either need to flip them the opposite direction or move the drill track to the right hand side. At a minimum, you’ll most likely want an arrival/departure track, a passing track, a run-around track, and two or more sorting tracks. You have the basics there except for a run-around track (you want some convienent way to get the engine around a car without having to go out on the main) - you just need to locate them so that your drill track can work them all. With a little tweaking you should be able to reconfigure to hit those goals. I’d suggest picking up a copy of John Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operation ( the track planner’s bible) and checking out his comments on yard design.
From what you’ve said and the plan you presented, it looks like you are going more for railfan-running with a little switching thrown in. No particular era either, since you mentioned streamliners, an F3,and a GP50. You are not trying to model a transportation system per se.
Nothing wrong with this approach, IMHO, just making sure it’s what you’re shooting for.
I think you’ll have some reach problems in the Happy Creek area, especially those tracks all the way at the back. A guideline on max reach distance mentioned in several resources is 24", which can vary by person and layout height. I would mock up a shelf at the height you’re thinking about and see if the reach is comfortable to you.
Even so, accessing the back industries at Happy Creek has you reaching across a lot of stuff, including the doubletrack mains.
I would be inclined to consolidate all the Happy Creek industries on the pit-side of the mains and make Happy Creek a true single-ended branch that originates/connects to the yard only. This will remove the complicated connect & reconnect trackwork you have now, and eliminate the need to reach across the mains that your streamliners will orbit on. It could also give you a swiching lead for the yard (the yard switcher would use the branch main as its lead, and not foul the mains).
I agree with Jeff that the yard needs some more analysis WRT the way you want it to function. For this layout, it seems that the yard’s purpose is:
Giving the orbiting streamliners a place to park
Originate and terminate a local that will switch the Happy Creek industries.
Turn the cab units / observation cars / etc.
My gut says you have more tracks & turnouts than necessary. I would “game out” scenarios with the various trains and movements you think you’ll be making and see how
Interesting plan, I like it! I would consider a second track off the roundhouse lead, and maybe a double siding in the lower right hand corner. But with or without, it looks like a fun thing to build and operate.
I retired in 06, but was a caregiver until a year ago. Then I got into building a “replacement” HO 11x15 two level layout, my first with DCC. I spend time almost every day on the layout, anywhere from 1/2 hour to a couple of hours. The thing is, even in retirement, we are sooooo busy!
When I was working, retirees used to say - almost all of them - “I can’t believe I ever had time to go to work”. I would laugh and say, “yeah, right”. But now I find myself saying the same thing. The thing is, its a hobby, and not a job. So if you spend all day on it or avoid it for awhile, its OK.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
PS: While some might pooh pooh this, I too enjoy letting a train or two just run in “circles”, while I’m switching out cars between the yard & sidings. It really gives atmosphere, and the sounds are pretty neat too!
I like the separation of the main line on the bottom so it isn’t just a loop of double track.
Specific - in the yard on the bottom most tracks it stair steps rather than just being a straight ladder. There would be a gain of three cars more storage if the last track broke off immediately after the first turnout.
Specific - in the yard there are crossovers between the 4th and 5th tracks just a very short way in from the beginning of the sidings (on both sides too) - why? Seems to be a waste, when one could just run to the end of the track and come back on the other anyway.
General in the yard. There are five double ended tracks and only two stub end. It seems to me one could get much more capacity and make operations more interesting if there were only 2 or 3 double ended tracks and the others were stub ended. It would be more and more intersting work for the yard goat.
General in the yard. I think I would extend a track around to the left (making 4 tracks on that hinged drop in section for a yard lead and work the yard from that end.
Specific - I don’t believe there is sufficient room do perform a good run around operation on the industry track at the lower left (grain elevator?). At best one could run around one car at a time. I think I would make it a 2 track stub ended siding, or remove the 2nd track all together. This would either force the yard to send out trains oriented in the right direction to switch it trailing point, or it would require the local switching crew to do some manuvering up across the mains do do a run around across happy creek a couple of times. Switching the area could then take 5-10 minutes instead of 20 seconds, especially if one is dodging main line through trains.
Although our geometries are different, I see some similarities between your layout plans and Phase 1 of my own layout. I have a couple of train loops where I generally have “through trains” running, and a yard which I can work with switchers without interfering with the main. But, after a while, I saw a problem. I have too few industries, too few destinations for cars. Other than the looping trains, almost all activity was confined to the yard. Since I’m fundamentally a “Builder,” not an “Operator,” this doesn’t bother me while I’m in the construction phase, but I found that after a while I tired of the limited options. Phase 2 involves staging tracks and more industries to switch.
WOW! This is more than I hoped for. So much expert input, experience, no arguments, no real repeating, every post with something new and valuable, so much info and tips…kudos to you all. [bow]Thanks for making this better for me.[:)][:)]
I’ not going to waste time quoting and mentioning everyone’s name. The changes I made…well, you know who you are, and I am, and will be grateful for a long time. I made some minor changes (spurs, service track, storage track, etc.) that have given me some more action, but there is one very big thing that was pointed which was ultra important. The reach at Happy Creek. I think I was so excited about the prospect of doing a tressel/revine/water scene, that the reach I created went completely by me. Another senior moment, I
Jocking the big streamliner back and forth in the yard soon got old. So, I went against my “things to avoid”, installed a turnout on the hinged drop-in section, and then moved a turnout on the right hand side a little. It got me just enough track to park that thing so that it doesn’t foul the rest of the yard. I cleaned up the lower part of the yard, and got rid of 3 turnouts in the whole process. Besides being easier to switch in the yard, I think the yard will hold more cars and still give me a run around. I was wondering if anyone has experience with hinged drop-ins (“draw bridges”), and having turnouts and switch machines there. I’m a little concerned about having mechanisms sticking out the under side with wires and such. I have had old timers advise against it at the club, but in my case, considering what it has done for the yard, I find it necessary. I hope I can pull it off, and that it’s not going to be one of those [banghead] things. Any info or leads regarding “draw bridges” would be appreciated.
