Returning to the hobby - Very basic DCC question

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Forgive the ignorance - I’ve never “played” with DCC before.

My only experience with it was watching a modular club use it at a great american train show. (I might add, they said they loved it, but I kept seeing their system shut down every couple minutes when something shorted).

My question:

When you walk into your layout room after a hard days work and it’s time to “play trains”, do you have to call up the address of a locomotive? Like with DC for example, you flip the power switch, and crank the throttle and the train moves.

With DCC, do the engines remember “who they are”?, etc.? Or do you have to identify or choose them every time you boot up?

I would guess they would remember who they are when you last powered down. Is this the case?

Of course, the answer may depend on the manufacturer. Just trying to understand some of the basics here…

(and I know there are som pros on this site, and I’ll get a more thorough answer than if I bought a book on the subject which is likely outdated anyway).

Some purists would most certainly cringe at the thought, but there may be days when I just want to flip a power switch, and have my layout come to life instantly, without programming locos, etc. If this is possible with DCC, it will help my decision making process.

You know how it is - you have your father-in-law over, and want to show him your trains. It would be nice if I didn’t have to say, “hold on a minute while I program some engines…”

Then again, it would also be very nice to just hand him a DCC throttle, and have no discussion about DC blocks!!!

2

I’m far from expert on DCC but engines do ‘remember’ their addresses (typically their road number) when the system is powered down. OTOH, you do have to ‘acquire’ an engine after starting the system – even if it’s the same engine and cab you were using when you powered down.

Chuck

3

you do not have to reprogram your locos each time you power up your layout. the locos remember their address until you decide to change it. you do have to select the loco that you want to run but you do it with the keypad instead of selecting a block. i’m still waiting to receive my dcc unit so i’m going by what i’ve learned from my fellow club members who already have it. i’ve been wiring my layout for dcc from the first length of track i put down. no switched blocks except for the section of track i will be using to program the decoders. i think you can purchase the operators manual before you buy the dcc system you chose. so you can read up on it before you get the system. dcc opens up a whole new way to operate your trains

4

Your locos remember their addresses. The last loco used is still the active loco when you power-up. I have a Digitrax Zephyr. To change the loco I want to use, I press the loco button, type in the loco’s number I want to use and push loco again. This is about a 5 second process. My loco addresses match the loco numbers so the address, is displayed on the loco you want to use, if you can’t remember. I’m a dinosaur that still uses books to learn and I also recommend books to people starting out. Digitrax has the Big Book of DCC, Klambake (Kalmbach) has a good book on DCC also.

Most DCC locos come programed to address 03, I think (I’ve never bought a DCC equipped loco). At anyrate, the decoder is programed to 03. The lights and everything are pre set. You will need to initially program the loco to a new address, if desired. This initial programing takes less than a minute, if all goes right.

DCC is pretty simple. Almost as simple as DC. Now, if you take out the need for block wiring from the the equation, DCC is almost easier! I am talking from experiance with the Digitrax Zephyr. However, I think most are at least as easy and maybe some even easier.

5

Yes you have to select your locomotive when you start.

On an NCE system (a very good system) you hit the select loco button, dial in the loco number, enter it and away you go. It takes about 5 seconds. With conventional DC on a multi cab layout you will spend more time lining block rotaries or toggles, than dialing in the engine number.

If they were shorting out every few minutes then they either had bad wiring, were trying to operate DCC and DC at the same time, weren’t watching what they were doing or the engines were screwed up and had shorts in them. On the home layouts with DCC I have operated on frequently the only time there is a problem is when somebody runs thru a switch (the switch isn’t routed properly) which is operator error.

Dave H.

6

Dehusman - you jarred my memory. I remember someone at that club mentioning something about turnouts being thrown the wrong way.

I hear you about the block rotaries and toggles. I visited a HUGE club layout several years ago, where the DC wiring was simply frightening. You could hear all these relays snapping back and forth, etc.

I have zero doubt that DCC would be the best for a large layout. Just trying to understand some of the obstacles.

(I asked a couple months back whether or not DCC makes sense for a small shelf layout - this time around, I’m trying to ask more intelligent, specific questions).

Thanks for the answers folks - this forum is extremely helpful.

7

You can download the manuals for Digitrax stuff on their web site. It might help in evaluating the good and bad. I’m committed to Digitrax, and have been happy thus far with everything. It is not as complex as it sounds, or as it will appear in the manuals. Like most manuals, they talk about almost everything and you will probably only use about 10-20 percent of the capability. But, you never know!

Good luck.

8

So there is no confusion in what I said, If I run loco # 803, and shut down my system. The next time I power up my Zephyr, No 803 is still chosen and ready to go. I do not have to select it again. If this is how NCE works, I don’t know.

9

What is difficult for many people to understand about DCC is that it sounds complicated because you can with many systems take control of every aspect of the running of the loco (speed curves, start voltages, etc.). You can program so many things that sound difficult and confusing. Well, they can be. But… the basic operation of DCC is really not much to learn. I wi***hey had had this when I started in the hobby 30+ years ago. I am waiting for a Walthers 7 1/2 curved turnout to arrive in the mail early next week to complete the second of two return loops that are on the layout, and it will be time to do some serious operating on the layout! No toggeling switches around the layout running into the loops the wrong way and so on. So far I LOVE IT!!! Well worth every penny I paid for it.

10

I think DCC maybe the way to go I thinking when I get my layout done in the near future I’am considering DCC but my thing is getting the decoders in my Locomotives and the system I’ll use.Never operated with DCC have seen it in action seems OK.

11

Power routing/live frog turnouts have problems with DCC.
Stick with insulated turnouts and everything is great.
Don’t ask which is better, thats like Ford vs Chevy.
Just stay away from the entry level stuff, like everything else,
you get what you pay for.
DCC is one of the worlds greatest inventions, next to beer and the
remote control.

12

The best part is - all that complicated stuff liek function mapping, speed curves, start voltage, mid voltage, max voltage, etc. is neat - but you don;t have to do ANY of it just to run some trains. The only thing you really HAVE to do is program an address, and every DCC system I know of offers some simplified method of programming an address. The better systems offer 4-digit addressing, so you can make each loco’s DCC address the same as its cab number. No trying to memorize some mapping or needing cheat sheets, you want to run #602, you punch in 603. Want to run 2124? Punch in 2124.
All that complicated stuff - you can save that for later. And there are ways to simplify that, at least with one of the major brands of DCC systems. There is a free program called DecoderPro that gives you a nice user interface into the more complicated aspects of decoder programming. And it runs on PC (Windows or Linux) and Mac. Works with any DCC system that has a computer interface (pretty much all of the current systems except Bachmann and MRC).

–Randy

13

Ahhh, is that why some turnouts are now advertised as “DCC ready”?

So that club I saw having problems wouldn’t have had so many if they didn’t use power-routing turnouts. Is that correct?

14

At first DCC was intimidating to me but once you start it is easier to wire then DC is. Decoders were another thing that intimidated me. I was scared to rip apart a 200 dollar Locomotive to put in a 40 dollar decoder and then hope it runs. After I put in my first one and then programed it I felt like an expert, it was that simple. I can now do them in under 10 minutes. The plug and play decoders for the Proto 2000’s take only 30 seconds and there is no need to put in resistors or change bulbs. DCC is the only way to go if your building a new layout, big or small.

15

How easy is it to run a multiple unit train?

16

Its very simple. You can run 2 together, you can run 2 seperate 2 loco trains together. I’ve never tried 3, I’ll do that tonight.

17

Running multiple unit trains is what us known as consisting. It is a really neat feature of DCC.
Having re-entered the hobby myself last year I was intimidated by this DCC thing. Never heard of it. Once I talked myself into it I haven’t looked back. Yes, the first engine conversion is a sweat as I was convinced that I would ruin an engine. Take it slow and after becoming familiar with the basics it quickly becomes second nature. I have never smoked a decoder, YET.

Basic programming of decoders is not hard, and as you learn you expiriment with additional programming feature like ditch lights etc. If you mess it up, you an always reset the decoder to factory default and start over.

Layout wiring is quite simple and even I learned it quickly. In my opinion DCC is a great advance in the hobby and has added a new aspect to keep it interesting.

This forum is a big asset to learning. I always said that the only stupid question is one that is never asked. The people here always help and just reading various topics is a learning expirience.

A few places you can check out to help with learning are often mentioned here.
www.loystoys.com
www.wiringfordcc.com
www.tonystrains.com

Good luck, and go DCC, you will not regret it.

18

No, at least not with the Digitrax Zephyr. Fire it up and the last locomotive selected will be the one selected at startup.

They remember, unless the decoder is defective/damaged. The address and other programmed variables are stored in static memory.

Not manufacturer dependent, the memory feature is part of the NMRA specs, all decoders remember.

Its possible. Lets say you go out today, buy a new DCC system and a single DCC equipped locomotive. You go home, hook the two wires from the track to the command station (just like you would with a powerpack), set the locomotive on the track, select address #03, and go. Turn it off when you’re done, come back the next day, turn it on (its already at address #03) and go. When you get a second loco, then you can program one of the two to a different address.

Of course you want to say that, if ya think its a good time to impress him with your tech savvy. [;)]

[quote]
QUOTE: Then again, it would also be very nice to just hand him a

19

Speaking of father in laws, when I started planning my current layout, I was already sure I was going to go with DCC. My father in law works on it with me, plus he has a lot more equipment than I do. When we started out, he was pretty adament about having some for of control so we could switch between DC and DCC. Since then, he has learned to operate my Zephyr system (no “getting him started”, he goes to the basement without me and turns everything on and runs trains without my help). I do all the programming for a new decoder, but I’m pretty confident that if I showed him how to use DecoderPro he could do it, at least setting addresses. He has also aquired 3 QSI sound locos (2 BLI and an Atlas). Now, he’s all for forgetting the DC aspect. Every couple of weeks he picks three of his locos and has me order appropriate decoders. Slowly but surely, his fleet is being converted to DCC. Just because you have 100 ocos doesn’t mean you have to rob a bank and convert ALL of them to DCC overnight. Like anything else is this hobby, you work slowly and gradually build up the fleet.

–Randy

20

Iam useing the new bachmann unit and love it so far.I building a vary small switching lay out in HO(34"wide and 8’long)I have two engines in DCC now Both are SW1500’s(little tough to put chips in but they work fine)They are both S.P.unites.I have them programed by cab#. When it is time to run I just pu***he button corresponding to the cab,and away I go.

OLE’IRISH