If a truck is pulling a parade float is crossing an airport runway on the way to a parade, and gets smooshed by a 747 that happens to be landing on that runway, are there questions about whether the pilot could have/ should have done something more to avert the crash? Would the same arguement hold true if the truck pulling the float blew through a stop sign on a busy highway? Why is a rairoad track different?
When you ask why a railroad track is different, in what way do you assume that it is different?
Because most people assume there is a degree of control over the train similar to what a automobile driver has, or a pilot.
Pilots can pull up, (not really, committed is committed, but…) and a car’s driver can swerve, slam on the brakes, so forth.
Of course, all the engineer can do is apply the brakes, pucker up and let the laws of physics do what it does, but people assume there is more to it than that, they fail to understand the mechanics of mass, inertia and gravity working against the engineer.
The average person has no idea how long it takes a train doing, say, 70 mph to come to a stop.
There is a YouTube video of an Amtrak hitting a passenger car at grade, the engineer immediately makes a full reduction on the brakes and winds the dynamics up full, and it still takes the 6 or 7 car light (compared to a freight train) passenger train over ½ of a mile to stop.
Every person applying for a driver’s license should have to watch a minimum of 30 minutes of trains wiping out cars before they can get a license……
As for why a railroad track is different?
A automobile driver can swerve, he has on average one other lane he can drive into to avoid the accident.
A pilot has even more options as to what direction he can maneuver his aircraft…a locomotive has two options….do nothing, or cut throttle and apply the brakes.
The train will follow the tracks, period.</
The basic issue is that its the driver responsibility to never let himself get into a position where his vehicle is blocking the tracks, those crossing gates are a there for a reason, If you driving a semi-truck or an SUV or a tiny Fiat 500, its the driver who needs to keep aware of where he is, stopping your car before entering the tracks when at a crossing with a traffic light may be inconvenient for other drivers behind you, but its better than ending up on the evening news when they are using the Jaws of Life to extricate you from your vehicle.
The biggest problem is that most people are unaccustomed with dealing with trains on a daily basis. Some people are SO desensitized from the outside world in their vehicles the don’t even notice emergency vehicles even with the lights and sirens blaring. Some truckers can often forget they have a great big trailer behind them when they approach RR crossings, Youtube has alot proof of that. This case still to me, will boil down to what did the driver see, or not see, on approach to the crossing and when did he realize a train was coming.
No matter what alot the responsibility WILL fall on the driver for this because even if he can claim he never saw the train, he was still carrying people on an open semi-truck flatbed, without any discernible seatbelts on a public roadway, and not a designated parade route, that’s got to a violation of some law when you can’t even ride in the open back of a pickup truck anymore.
There are details about where the two trucks were just prior to the crash that have not been reported. I hear a story like this, and I wonder how it happened. I ask myself if I would ever make such a terrible mistake. I have read about the driver, and my hunch is that he did not intentionally try to beat the train or enter the crossing knowing that it was activated.
I believe there is a good chance that events and timing just unfolded in a way where there was very little margin of error; and then just one little mistake tipped the balance. He entered the crossing just a little too late to clear it in time, and just a little too early to get stopped by the gate. I would not be so sure that I would never make such a mistake. So I wouldn’t be so quick to condemn the driver.
The driver was an Army veteran just like the other veterans in the celebration, and he was proud to participate and play a part in driving the truck. The point by vsmith about the unsafe transport of passengers on the flatbed is a good one. I suspect that being in a parade would suspend some of the rules and regulations, but out on the road in normal driving (as this apparently was), that flatbed full of people riding in open chairs must have violated dozens of laws.
Just think of the distraction that alone would impose on the driver. You have got a whole living room full of people on your back bumper to keep an eye on. Couple that with the fact that he was following another truck with an open trailer full of people, and trying to coordinate with that driver who was probably distracted as well. Then add a bunch of cops with their s
I share your concerns, Bucyrus.
Reading your critics some suggest you say the rail road or the engineer is to blame. However, I do not believe that and I do not think you believe it either. Rather, you suggest we need to look into all surrounding circumstances before jumping to any conclusion. That is certainly what should happen.
In before the lock.
Different thread, same discussion.
Irrespective of any other factors - The dirver did not assure himself that his rig would fully clear the crossing prior to entering it.
All the other ‘excuses’ that are being given for the driver are BOGUS. If you aren’t SURE your rig - in it’s entirety - will clear the crossing you don’t enter it - no matter if the crossing protection is operating or not.
True, but the question becomes how to get the drivers to realize that? This is by no means the first fatal accident due to failure to assure clearance before crossing.
One thought did come to mind when reading your post, the parade organizers could have stationed observers a mile each side of the crossing to provide a distant warning of an approaching train.
- Erik
All points aside, if you are in charge of any vehicle you are responsible for the lives in your vehicle and the lives of all those in vehicles around you. Semi truck, bus, minivan, scooter, whatever. A train can’t swerve, you can. A train can’t stop in 300-400 feet. The odds are your four wheel vehicle can. Semi trucks take a little longer. Trains take miles. I’m not judging the semi driver. I am praying for him and those who lost loved ones. We will learn the truth of what happened in due time. I challenge everyone who has a view on this (which is ALL of us) spend the same amount of time praying/meditating/spiritualizing for everyone who was there and affected as we have posting opinions on these threads.
I’ve come to believe that it’s a tort lawyer’s job to find a flaw in the armor and make it a gaping hole. Right now, this is all about money for the lawyers. With some thrill of the contest included.
We don’t know that the crossing was timed for the exact mimium. And that’s the fictional flaw the shysters are using. Is there a crossing activation system that will provided the exact programed time for every train under every circumstance? I’d be surprised if such a perfect system existed.
If you’ll allow a digression, here’s how I was taught the problem.
Say a company is selling 6 oz. jars of instant coffee. There is not a machine or device they can buy, design, build, beg, borrow or steal that will put exactly 6 oz. of instant coffee in the jar every time without fail. They know that there are activist groups and Attorney Generals out there who would love to get face time on TV claiming that the company was “cheating” people with short weight jars. What to do?
The answer, they intentionally overfill the jars. They could target putting 6.5 oz. of instant coffee in the “6 oz.” jar. (No, that’s not going to come “Free” to the consumer.)
My thought is that no railroad has access to any crossing activation device that will produce the exact timed warning perfectly. They’ve got a 20 second minimum and they set their devices above 20 seconds to ensure the minimum is observed.
I think the lawyers
OK, this is a new and very stupid one.
I wrote “C_H_I_N_K in the armor” and it was censored twice.
Greyhounds,
Welcome to hononym hell. As we all know English has certain words that are spelled alike and sound alike but have very different meanings. For example, the word “match” which can mean a piece of wood or cardboard with a chemical which when struck will burst into flame or two objects that are alike or of the same design or two people well suited to a relationship.
You use the C word to mean a repair to a flaw which has left a weak spot subject to attack. Of course, someone who has been carefully taught to think we posters have the worst possible intent assumed that you meant something quite different. In fact you hadn’t even thought abut the other meaning until the censor suggested it to you. Such is the state of our new technology.
I’ve gotten into the same problem with a favorite poet, Emily D, but I don’t dare to write her last name. I can only hope you know who I mean. She once wrote “I never saw a train I wouldn’t take.”
John
I don’t blame the engineer, but going 60mph through a crossing in a parade zone is borderline insanity. Care should always be taken when thousands of people are around railroad tracks. Slow down to 10mph until the locomotives pass the crowd of people. Then you can take off like a bat out of hell.
Well, I like both poets. Both Frost AND Sandburg. I wasn’t sure, and I had to check. But it seems a lady named Edna wrote that line, not Emily. Could be wrong here. I don’t range much beyond Frost and Sandburg.
But while checking I found this one bit of verse very appropriate to the subject of the thread:
The Railroad Crossing*
Can’t tell you much about the thing, 'twas done so powerful quick,
But 'pears to me, I got a most outlandish heavy lick!
It broke my leg, and tore my sculp, and jerked my arm most o
Thomas, all evidence which was presented so far indicates that the railroad was not advised of the parade. I find it hard to believe any railroad in the litigious USA would be willing to knowingly risk any issues. They need good pr.
No train responds like a bat out of hell, accelerating or braking. When you have NO KNOWLEDGE of a ‘parade’ you operate at track speed. It has never been stated that UP was notified of the ‘parade’.
With this taking place in a ‘Quiet Zone’ and one that has been in effect since approximately 2006 (I read somwhere). I wonder how may residents of Midland, have truly forgotten that there is a railroad running there at all - since they very rarely if ever hear a horn blow, and thus cross the idea of a train operating on the tracks out of their mind set.
The truth is that the truck went through a traffic signal against a stop indication and was struck by a vehicle proceeding under clear signal indication. The fact that it was a train that was the innocent vehicle operating within the law does not affect that the vehicle in the wrong was a truck driven by a truck driver and it was his fault.
In Dandenong, Victoria, Australia recently a B- Double truck, a prime mover with two articulated trailers ran on to a grade crossing after the barriers had lowered and was struck by a three car electric commuter train travelling at 60 miles per hour. The prime mover was clear and the truck driver survived. The train driver was injured and a the train derailed and rolled onto its side. One passenger died of a heart attack brought on to the stress of the derailment. After the collision, the lights and bells at the crossing were still working and the one barrier left was still lowered.
There has been much press discussion about grade crossings being dangerous but in fact large heavy trucks are dangerous. The truck could have run through road signals and struck a bus with similar results but people don’t say that traffic signal controlled intersections are dangerous and should be eliminated, as they do with grade crossings.
One thing that isn’t clear about the Midland collision is even if there was a truck in front, the truck on the crossing could have driven to the presumably clear opposing direction of travel on the road, although this would have damaged the opposite boom barrier arm.
Suppose the local authorites hadn’t closed a cross road and the float was struck by an 18 wheeler doing 60 mph under clear traffic signals. The result would have been the same, and the driver who went through the red light would be to blame.
M636C
I’m assuming this was rhetorical, or do we want to discuss runway incursions. I’ve been doing airfield driving program management for two years now.
Adrianspeeder