In “right to work” states like Florida do railroads employ both union and nonunion people i.e. are some conductors and engineers unionized and others not?
In general the Class I carriers are union shops, you have to pay the union if you want to work. If you do not, the company is obligated by their union contrrcts to fire you.
Shortlines may or may not be unionized, and if unionized may or may not be closed shop depending on what their contracts say.
Mac McCulloch
Former BRAC dues payer in closed shop railroad
It would depend on the contract language, assuming there is a contract in the first place. Iowa is a right to work state where union membership can’t be required as a condition of employment. I work for a class 1 carrier in Iowa where the union has a contract with the carrier (Union Shop Agreement) that as a condition of employment I must maintain membership in one of the recognized unions. The reason being that railroad employment is governed by the Railway Labor Act and not state law.
Now a person dosen’t have to maintain a full membership. A person can be a “Dues Objector” and only pay those dues that go for the costs of maintaining the contract. (One of our engineers is a Dues Objector) By doing so they don’t get to participate in union meetings and don’t get to vote in any union contracts or resolutions.
Some of our supervisory officers (MTO/Trainmaster, MOP/RdForeman, etc) don’t pay local dues but pay International dues to maintain their seniority. If they want or have to, they can come back into the ranks.
It’s been hinted that had the labor coalition last month not come to agreement (or extension for one union) with the carriers and walked off, the Republicans in congress were going to attach to the law imposing the PEB descision an amendment that would have stripped the RLA of allowing Union Shop agreements. It was thought (rightfully so, I think) that Democrats would’ve passed it, even though they support labor, to avoid the cost to the economy.
Jeff, a full and proud to be, BLE&T Division 6 member.
Jeff, I always wondered how in Iowa railroads could get away with requiring employees to be in the union as a condition of employment and legally get away with it. But I still don’t agree with
There is a choice. That person can go find a job with a non-union company if they are so inclined.
If you don’t like paying union dues, you can always try to negotiate your own wages, hours, fringe benefits and working conditions with your employer.
Not trying to turn this into an anti union rant…just curious how “right to work” applies to the railroads…As someone had mentioned, the Railway Labor Act applies and the state laws do not, so the scenario I presented… union and nonunion workers working side by side for the same company likely does not occur often as state right to work laws do not apply.
I’m a proud union member. Those who dislike unions can go find work with a non union outfit. BTW,I’ve been there and done that and will never willingly go back down that road. There’s a reason I pay my dues.
And no you probably wont see non union workers out here with union workers. Talk about opening a can of worms.
I didn’t open it though. I was just curious about the “right to work” aspect as it relates to railroads. I have nothing against unions or their members.
But in industries where the “right to work” laws do apply then i suppose seeing union workers and nonunion workers working side by side must occur. I find that interesting and am curious about how that works both from a worker and an employer perspective. However, since it doesn’t happen in the railorad industry…and this is a railroad forum… I will refrain from asking those questions here…
For a while after the infamous 1960’s strike and lockout, the Florida East Coast was an '“open shop” railroad - even in the same craft, some were union members, others were not. I don’t know if that was because the FEC was purely an intrastate railroad - within Florida only - and hence exempt from the Railway Labor Act, though I doubt it (the federal concept of “interstate commerce” is broad enough to include the FEC).
Instead, my understanding is that in a right-to-work state, the fundamental decision of whether to unionize or not is up to the employee group - the RLA merely governs the unionization voting process and subsequent negotiations, strikes, lockouts, return-to-work orders, etc.
For what it’s worth, I believe most if not all of the FEC employees eventually voluntarily joined one or another of the national railroad unions in the 1980’s - 1990’s time frame - but I could be really wrong on that, too, and would welcome correcting/ clarifying info from someone who does know. i
In the meantime, see these articles in past issues of Trains:
Where did the railroad go that once went to sea?
Florida East Coast went into the black
by Morgan, David P.
from Trains February 1975 p. 22
FEC REGIONAL systemstory
The case of the car counters
I didn’t mean to make it sound like you did. I was referring to what would happen if non union workers were to come to work out here.
Outside the railroad I’m not really sure how the right to work thing works.
The Railway Labor Act applies to all railroads as do the Orders and Decisions of the National Mediation Board which determines union petitions for railroads and airlines. Note that airlines are also subject to the RLA. Unless the railroad in question is not connected to the national rail system it will be deemed to operate in Interstate Commerce and thus be subject to the numerous Federal Statutes, Regulations and decisions that govern all railroads connected to the national rail system.
The RLA preempts State or local regulation of railroad employment relatioonships where unions and collective bargaining are involved, thus state right to work laws do not apply and have no effect upon railroads, period.
8n’Sand
.
Railroad and Airline employees are covered by the railway labor act, employees in
other industries are covered by the Taft-Hartley act which allows states to have
right to work (for less) laws
Is trucking also covered by the Railway Labor Act then? As far as I know the big LTL carriers (ABF and YRC are the only ones left I think) are 100% union…correct me if I’m wrong, but in order to work for them as a driver you have to be a Teamster.
Ulrich,
Some years back, in 1990’s The Teamsters struck, and in memphis( ten my hometown) the major issue then was UPS vs. Fed Ex. Fed Ex employees were covered (as airline employees) by the extension of the Railway Labor Act
UPS was at a disadvantage, as a direct competitor of Fed Ex due to their Teamsters Union Affiliations for employees. The only Fed Ex employees thenwere the 4,000 or so Pilots who were Unionized.
Tennessee (Then as now is a Right to Work State. Since that time of the “Big Brown Out” the Teamsters have tried to organize Fed Ex. I have no idea how or where their efforts have been successful. I am aware that in both the USA and Canada the Teamsters are trying to Organize the Fed Ex ground employees. You can Google " Teamsters try to organize Fed Ex?" to get an idea about that activity.
Here are a couple of links that might be of interest about tactics the union is using to sway FedEx and what they are doing on a legislative fron to get FedEx away from the protection of the Railway Labor Act.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123791678454427343.html
and this: http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/41525
and this piece as well:
Not to be argumentative here - because I concede that the RLA supersedes local R-T-W laws - but out of curiosity and seeking a better understanding:
So how is it then that FEC came to be non-union or open shop in the 1960’s ? Guilford’s non-union “Springfield Terminal” strategy in the 1980’s ? And wasn’t Montana Rail Link also non-union or an open shop when it started in the 1980’s ?
In short, my understanding is that the RLA doesn’t necessarily mandate a union shop - but will govern procedures for the employees to decide if they want to be represented, and if so, then the mechanics of the bargaining process and subsequent strikes, lock-outs, etc. (the unions and the railroads negotiate the details of the contracts, unless an impasse is reached and a “Presidential Board” is appointed to implement a solution, etc.).
- Paul North.
Trucking is not covered by the RLA as far as I know. I work for Old Dominion Freight Line (a LTL carrier not near the size of Fed Ex but definitely a big competitor) and we are non-union. Dohrn and a couple of others are also non-union.
If you don’t have a contract with a Union, then a Railroad can be non-union. When the FEC’s contract expired they went through all the RLA requirements. Congress did not pass any Back to Work legislation, so the two Parties were allowed Self-help (i.e. Strike). The FEC hired replacement workers and eventually the NLRB decertified the Operating Employee’s Unions (BLET and UTU). The other Unions settled after being on Strike for many years. The Operating Employees were honoring the other Union’s Picket Lines, but weren’t on Strike, until the FEC hired replacement Operating Employees. The railroad was shut down for ten days, then limited freight operations resumed with managers operating the trains, then they started hiring replacement workers which caused the Operating Unions to go from respecting Picket Lines to joining the Strike.
Strike began January 23, 1963
Non-ops settle December 18th, 1971
Last Operating Union decertified in 1976.
So FEC was non-union from some date in 1963 until December 18th, 1971. Operating Employees were non-union for a longer period.
Thanks much for that detailed explanation ! [tup]
- Paul North.
P.S. - Were you aware of Beaulieu, France ? It’s at approx. these Lat./ Long. coords. (per ACME Mapper 2.0), about 0.3 mile east of a secondary rail line: N 45.17910 E 5.38931 - PDN.
I would rather not line the union boss’ pocket with my money. Think they care about you? A perfect example is nearly 300 or so union electricians were unemploy last year in the St. Louis area. Guess where two 80" and three 60" flat screen t.v.s are getting installed. The union hall. I delivered the televisions. Good use of the dues, right?
Don’t get me wrong, there are good unions and darn good union workers. But they are starting to get outnumbered by the worthless/entitlement ones who expect the world to baby and cater to them.
Just my two cents,
Brad (ex-union flatroofer/waterproofer, son of a union coal miner, grandson of a union carpenter, and brother of a union carpenter)