AMEN!
Gordon
BTW, the only thing I don’t like about Kato’s CPR offering is the font they used on the side for CP RAIL.
It’s not correct.
But that’s just me.
You know what I say? I say to each his own. If you wanna count rivets, then count away. Fact is, the more detail our models have, the more realistic they appear. In my opinion, that’s what seperates a good model railroad from a great one. The level of detail. Now, I ain’t bashing those who do not count rivets. I don’t count um. I’ll be makin plenty of nail and bolt holes though, since the Merritt Valley R.R. is based in the late 1800s. …and by the way, I’m one of the biggest rednecks I know.
Jarrell,
I think that would be “oops”…BUT i’M NOT RIVET COUNTING!!!
Tom
Well Said!
Lots of people are glad just to buy something and set it on the track and run it. OK, no problem! I wouldn’t criticize someone elses modeling, layout, anything- and if anyone had something negative about mine, well that would be the last time they needed to see it!
I consider myself a “rivet counter”, but that’s my quirk. There’s a Yahoo group for Railroad Prototype Modelers, and they do fantastic work! They don’t bash everyone elses work, it’s more a matter of seeing what YOU can do. The rivet counters you seem to be referring to are the ones that fit into one of several catagories-
- No layout, lots of beautiful bra$$ models sitting on a shelf- yeah, your plastic probably won’t stand a chance
- If they do have a layout, you’ll never see it- you WILL hear about it, how he did this better, his models are all equiped with Proto 87 wheelsets and operate perfectly, his scenery includes a hand carver perfect scale model of Mount Rushmore, etc… But ask to see it- well, he’s sick, his wife’s sick, the kids, dog, cat, whatever is sick, but he’ll let you know when it would be convenient.
- Layout is custom built, gladly points out how much this loco costs, spent a bundle on that then sent it out to get it custom painted by the top guys- nothing is a problem for his check book!
- Or he has built one or two very nice models- knows the prototype like the back of his hand, only 10 of them were built by Lima in 1922, this one is a perfect duplicate of their builder’s number xxxx, but it’s pulling a whole string of AHM cars? Well, he
This has all been discussed before. Same old, same old!
The connotation “rivet counter” is usually applied to someone who picks apart someone else’s models. “There are supposed to be 142 rivets on the tender, yours only has 142!” type statements.
If a person thinks they are a rivet counter, then it can mean something totally different - they are modeling the prototype as faitfully as they can, with no compromise.
So there are actually two (and maybe more!) types of rivet counters. The first kind listed probably would not recognise themselves in any case. You could also call them “nit pickers”.
Bob “No Rivets” Boudreau
PS: I’m quite surprised that no one has yet spelled them “rivits” - so far!
Thank you for your comments, I truely do appriciate most of them even though they weren’t what I exspected. As for the wuestion why I make fun of rivet-counters. I’m in this hobby to have fun if that means mixing trains from different eras and regions, so be it. Whereas rivet-counters, at least the ones I know, almost literally lose sleep at night if they mix trains from different eras. As I stated before, I’m in this hobby for the fun of it, not to collect gray hairs.
rivet counters make the hobby interesting.
The chase away the riff raff who dont have the time, money or most importantly the SKILL to produce museum quality models. Those tha in years past had Marx electric trains instead of Lionel of American Flyer but loved them none the less. Those of us who are chastized by the same folks for the geological absurdity ofPlywood Praries and screen and plaster mountains with no rock molds.
Those that use the old 0-5-0 to uncouple instead of the delightful expense of remote control magnetic uncouplers.
A circle of track with a train set power pack can be satisfying and great fun.
I have always felt deep inside that many who touch the hobby, get their fingers burned figuratively by the critics who belittle the beginner efforts .
That is what I see as the “Rivet Counter” types. the super critics .
EVERY expert began with the plywood praries and circle of sectional track.
And the Master modellers they ran into were the kind that shared their skills and were endlessly generous with their time.
nuff said (by me at least)
Doug, in Utah
Most of the time the true masters in this or any other hobby are not the ones running down how everyone else does the hobby.
I never hear someone like Aggro run down other people’s weathering jobs or people that don’t weather at all.
From now on we should require a nag to post a picture of their own work with the critical post so we can see from what an expert we are hearing from.
[:D]
What makes you think I don’t enjoy prototypical modelling? What makes you so sure I don’t enjoy counting rivets and doing it my way and collect gray hairs in doing so?
Why can’t you grasp “to each his own”, I enjoy, love, don’t get gray hair, being accurate to the real thing. Instead you choose to “make fun” of and imply we are not fun or enjoying the hobby because we enjoy doing things more realistically.
OK, you like steamers pulling hi-cubes and Dash-9’s pulling 36’ wood boxcars - mix your eras, I promise I won’t make fun of you - I’ll just do my own thing because we are all railfans and are enjoying the railroad hobby together.
I expect the same mutual respect in return.
I enjoy building a model, holding it to a roster shot and seeing something identical in model form in my hands and then putting it on my layout and holding an action picture next to it and seeing the same thing.
With out the drive for accurate models most of us would not be in this great hobby, and if enjoying accurate models on my layout is a rivet counter then that I am…
We dont need comments attacking others who model differently, these opinions should be kept to yourself, show some restraint…
if you cant say anything positive then dont say anything at all…
Mike…
I want detailed and authentic models, just not to the extent that I’m afraid to handle them out of breaking delicate details.
maybe it’s insecurity, feeling the need to justify mixing eras.running a hudson pulling gunderson well cars,with a bobler caboose, so he picks on the proto modler who builds what he sees, spends countless hours detailung and painting,a model he’s trying to duplicate as authentic as possible…I would never fault anyones model railroad or their talent level, it’s their hobby, it’s how they see it and duplicate it, so don’t knock ours…
BTW, I meant to add, why is it acceptable to pick on the rivet counter for doing his thing, but its blasphemy for some bozo to make a bad comment to a non-prototypical modeler?
We’re all equal and shouldn’t be picking on anybody for what makes them happy.
I’m not saying that I don’t believe in each is to his own. Hell, that’s just my opinion on the subject, I never knew that this would fire up so many guys. If I had known, I wouldn’t have posted it!
I publically appologize for anybody that was unintentionally offended. This will be the last topic I post that I ever make on the matter.
RR Redneck, I hope you won’t mind me saying this to you… here, in public, just as you stated your open contempt and hostility for rivet counters in public.
I get the impression that you are still young. You are opinionated, and feel confident in expressing opinions to others. That means you are judgemental. When you express judgements about others, you open yourself to judgement. So if you are still young, I can overlook your lack of judgement.
No society was ever built by attempting to feed off those whom we dislike, by marginalizing others with whom we don’t share preferences. If we did “make fun” of those who are different, we would have what Hobbes called, in Leviathan, a life that is, “…solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” History is full of examples. Few of the people that I share time with here appear, to me, to want that type of culture or existence…not on this forum.
If you have found the responses to be somewhat hostile, I hope you can reflect on their meaning, and profit from them. Ganging up on rivet counters, as it sounded like you were hoping to achieve, not only divides the population, but it severs those of us who wi***o learn from what they contribute to our understanding and appreciation for detail. In turn, we try to remind them to have fun simply enjoying what they have achieved to that point. It really is the whole point of our hobby…mutual regard and enjoyment. That can only be realized with cooperation and tolerance. Your post was intolerant, and therefor incongruent with those principles.
Thanks for reading my post.
-Crandell
RR Redneck, I can except your “public” apology, but what was the purpose in this post? We, on this forum run the course from pure beginner with no modeling experience to some with over 60 years. If you want to start a business in the model railroading community, why put us down? Not a smart business idea. Secondly, I might suggest you get rid of the "redneck’ mentality and clean up your language, it is not acceptable to me and others here. I can respect yours and others opinions, we all have them. With that said, this is my opinion and I make no public appologies for it. Respectfully, Ken
I’m worse than a rivet counter. I’m a sarcastic rivet counter. [:-^] [dinner]
I always think of it like this: Why am I in the hobby? For enjoyment. Probably to recapture my childhood. Since I’m not working for a museum and have not stated that I’m trying to perfectly recreate the prototype…well that gives me freedom. If someone says that what I did was not prototypically correct, I just say that that wasn’t my goal. When I was younger, I allowed critical people to spoil my fun. Not anymore. Critics are easily disarmed if you just agree that, yep you are right, that’s not protypical but I’m in the hobby to have fun. I enjoy what I’m doing so mission accomplished. Once, years ago, when I was running some trains at a local model railroad show, a man walked up with a critical demeaner asked sharply why I was running a certain engine with another engine. I smiled and said, “Because it is my railroad and I get to call the shots.” His whole attitude softened, he smiled, chuckled and said something to the effect that yes it was. He left with a smile on his face.
I ended my last post prematurely. I think it all boils down to the idea/ principle that you are about as happy as you decide to be.