Rode Hydrogen Fuel Cell Bus today in Canton Ohio

If only it were so easy as mixing the liquid hydrogen with diatomaceous earth and wrapping it in wax paper…

No matter, I nominate you for a Safe Hydrogen Prize, if one ever exists!

But I am still not convinced that hydrogen is significantly more dangerous than a tank of compressed/liquefied propane or natural gas, both of which have been used in motor vehicles for quite some time.

Has there ever been a hydrogen tank car BLEVE incident? Would make for a interesting comparison to propane, especially of hydrogen starts to be shipped by rail in large quantities.

I looked into a paper regarding handling of hydrogen issued by the governing body of German fire department.

They advice to let pressure tanks with burning leakage burn out, while cooling with water. They say there is no danger, that the pressure tank might crackle. If the pressure tank gets extremely hot the danger of an implosion exists when the flame flashes back into the tank with decreasing gas pressure

They also say that one might need a infrared camera to determine if the leakage really burns.

We have Hydrogn combustion engines in cars and trucks since the mid 1990s and I’m not aware of burning or exploding hydrogen tanks.
Regards, Volker

Edit: BLEVEs (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion) can occur when a tank containing boiling liquified gas ruptures. In cars and the current Hydrogen use in trains the gas is carried in pressure tanks at about 350 bar, not in liquified form.

That is exactly how firefighters around here treat tank car fires at derailment sites, the most common contents are propane/LPG, gasoline, diesel and crude oil.

Like you said earlier a pure hydrogen flame is difficult to see in daylight.

The visible flames in the Hindenburg disaster were from the burning fabric skin and aluminium frame, which also helped to spread the fire.

Here is a BLEVE of a liquid hydrogen tank described: https://www.h2tools.org/lessons/liquid-hydrogen-tank-boiling-liquid-expanding-vapor-explosion-bleve-due-water-plugged-vent

Regards, Volker

Is the energy recovery of a final hydrogen user still less than other sources?. That is the energy needed to produce the hydrogen and the energy recovery of the end hydrogen user ?

In case of an accident isn’t the energy density of either liquid or gaseous hydrogen more than natural gas , propane,etc ? Hydrogen doesn’t have to dispose of those left over carbon atoms of natural gas and propane for example.

Zero emission???

One of the primary processes for making hydrogen is to start with fossil fuel. A primary by-product is, guess what? Carbon Dioxide.

I laugh when I see “zero emission” electric buses in Chicago. Illinois electricity source is about 45% coal and 45% nuclear.

Locally they are zero emission. The emissions are produced somewhere else so that the air quality in the city gets better.

You can make fuel cells real zero emission if you use water and renewable energies to produce hydrogen. A second way is producing Methanol from the atmosphere with renewable energy and using it in a fuel cell. The fuel cell releases CO2 but not more the used to produce Methanol: https://serenergy.com/the-first-methanol-fuel-cell-powered-vessel-in-germany-is-now-sailing-the-waters-of-lake-baldeneysee/

Producing Hydrogen from hydrocarbons will release CO2.

There are ways to make fuel cells zero emission. Hydrogen production could be used to buffer renewable energy in times of low demand.
Regards, Volker

Our transit authority buses are all powered by CHG and in the approximate 20 years since it took over I believe there’s only been one fire, with no injuries and moderate damage to the bus. That’s a much better record than the previously used diesels. (Note: I was a member of the regional fire department for 25 years.)

Alphas, without a location your post is meaningless. Where are these buses?

Central PA, specifically Centre County. Its actually a large operation since its focal point is the main PSU campus. The University only provides housing for about 25 % of its students so it requires a lot of bus service to non-university student housing areas which can be as much as 3-4 miles away. Plus serving the rest of the immediate community as well as certain routes in surrounding townships.