Some organizations are funny in that regard. An outfit I put in almost 30 years with were sticklers for getting to the very root of even the smallest ordeal. I think they had some idea that by sifting through the ashes they might prevent XXXX from ever happening again.
I had enough organizational goodwill that I didn’t have to worry about my job security, so on a number of occasions I would just take the blame to get the inquisition over with.
But, we were not a company looking for reasons to fire people. I get the impression from discussions here that the railroads often are that way.
I think our owner had the view that small problems have simple solutions. But that the more opaque a problem might be, the more obsessed he was in finding the elusive root. Those of us with serious time used to chuckle among ourselves how intense the fires sometimes burned.
Different carriers had differnt cultures. When I was working with CSX the ‘story’ making the rounds was that no one was ‘true’ NS employee until they had been fired at least once. YMMV.
Some of the stories we’ve heard here, such as the guy getting fired just for taking his engine around a wye that he wasn’t “qualified” for, even though he was instructed to do so by a superior…doesn’t really paint a picture of tolerance.
As I said - Different carriers, different cultures. On some carriers that was a firing offense, other carriers might discipline the Supervisor that instructed the crew to do it. Other carriers might take no notice of the transgression at all.
Getting fired on the railroad isn’t always the same as getting fired elsewhere. Usually getting fired is more like being suspended without pay for a period of time. That time period varies with the offense and if there is a Federally required specific time period.
Getting fired too often could lead to a permanent dismissal but again, depending on the offenses, doesn’t happen that often.
There are some managers who feel that the climb to the top requires writing people up for as much as possible. It’s actually gotten better for us in that regard. The culture has changed a bit for the better, maybe because many of the old school managers have retired. Maybe because there aren’t as many managers left after the PSR purges.
Many if not most railroad labor agreements have some sort of clause that limits maximum discipline suspensions to to 30 days or so. The carriers in certain instances view the 30 days as a insuficient level of discipline for the particular transgression - thus employees get terminated.
Terminations create additional work for the Local Chairmen of the unions as the have to undertake the work of getting the employee reinstated. The ‘reinstatement process’ has multiple step both within the carrier and with external labor boards. Sometimes the employee is reinstated by the carrier after 6 months or so; sometimes the carrier will continue to fight reinstatement through vari
The old school managers I had just ripped you a new one, but an hour later, everything was fine. The newer ones are the ones that instantly want to take everything to official discipline levels.
As far as number of managers? We must have missed that day in PSR school - it seems like we have more than ever.
Well Jeff just like UP and how they are now routinely routing the resins my boss gets. It goes from Houston to Dallas then over to St Louis then backtrack to Little Rock then finally up to North Platte then down to Kansas City where it finally gets interchanged to the BNSF for delivery to my boss at his SIT yard. These are flyers either the last 8 shipments all have gone this way. What should take 3 days maximum is taking between 1 to 2 weeks.
Years ago it was a common practice for lumber brokers to ship commodity lumber (standard items such as 4x8 1/2" plywood, finished 2x4, etc.) to a nominal destinations without having sold the cargo. Often, the would delierately choose a slow route with lots of interchange activity. The broker would eventually find a buyer for that particular carload, then issue a diversion order to have the car pulled off the initial route and sent to the actual buyer. I suspect that practice died out with onset of the Staggers Act and would not be the reason this particlar load was batted back & forth?
I unloaded freight cars at a small grocery warehouse in southern Ohio in the late 1970’s while I was in high school - i remember getting just such a BN boxcar of canned apple juice that originated in Washington State. The waybill showed the car was orginally consigned to Philadelphia via the following route:
BN to Beiber, CA
WP to Salt Lake City
DRGW to Denver
MP to Kansas City
UP to St. Louis
N&W to Toledo
Conrail to Philly
It was pulled off that route at Toledo, given to the DT&I there, taken to the town where the grocery wholesaler was located, and then handed to the B&O to move the final 500 yards to the unloading dock. It took over five weeks. [%-)]
UP didn’t go to St Louis in the 1970s. They didn’t gain St. Louis until they got the MP in 1982.
In my example, UP isn’t the only party to the routing. BNSF also has a say where the interchange point is going to be. I almost wonder if they want the longer route to get a better division on the rate.
If my memory correctly serves, there was an article in Trains magazine several years back, explaining that Roscoe, Snyder, & Pacific was an especially popular bridge for such routings.
At one time Circuitous routing, Reconsignment and Diversion were the hallmarks of distribution of agricultural products from the Pacific Northwest. Product was shipped from PNW without a buyer, consigned to the shipper on the East Coast. As the products moved across the country the shippers ‘marketing department’ would be working on finding buyers at the highest possible price. Once a buyer was secured, the ‘marketing department’ would contact the appropriate railroad and issue reconsignment and diversion orders to move the car(s) on a direct routing to the ultimate buyer.
With the carrier combinations that have happened since the enactment of Staggers there are no longer all the ‘intermediate carriers’ to effect circuitous routing, at least not to the extent that existed pre-Staggers.
If, while switching out a train OR building one we have bad cars and they don’t get switched out you get a hearing letter in the mail. If it says 15 track it goes into 15 track. When you pull that track to build that train they better be in the right order! A miss built train will get caught at the first reader, signals go out to TM’s and YM’s get notified and the switch crew gets called on the carpet. At least that’s the way CSX and we did it.
23 years today on a different railroad. I’ve never heard of anyone, management or labor, having ever gotten “talked to” over misrouted cars. By the time a train hits the first scanner, the misroute will have been assigned a new block destination, even though it’s actual destination is still the same. Unless it’s hot, like a car of fence posts*, nobody is going to be to upset.
It’s not that uncommon to also have a stray or two that weren’t supposed to be in the train. That get’s picked up and the info passed on to the crew to update their train lists. Have too many of those types, and then someone will get notified.
I can’t say it’s happening more with PSR, but with the cuts and changes it’s even less likely that they are going to have a switch crew dig out a car that’s in track 15 that should’ve gone to track 14. Unless it’s hot and being watched, it’s going to take the scenic route.
Heck, there’s probably some in higher managment who would be happy if a misrouted car led to a customer leaving the railroad.
Jeff
We’ll see if anyone catches the meaning. I’m afraid too many that would catch on may have departed the forums.