Earlier today I responded to a thread in Electronics and DCC regarding low cost sound decoders; some of the discussion diverted to cost factor and quality. Generic sound vs prototype sound was discussed and this led to prototype models vs. generic models. I encourage all to respond to the following:
What is your opinion on the new models with prototype-specific details? Are you more inclined to purchase them now as opposed to previous less-detailed offerings?
If you have a free-lanced RR do the changes affect your purchases?
If you follow a specific prototype, do you feel the changes are a relief, or an annoyance?
Would you rather install the specific details yourself?
Companies like Kadee, Tangent, Athearn Genesis, and Proto 2000 have stepped up the quality of rolling stock. Are these types of models and their added cost important to you? If so why? If not, why?
With more accurate models available, will you use the time previously spend on painting, decaling and detailing rolling stock and motive power to work on your layout (track, structures, scenery)?
Hypothetical question: If price was not a factor, would you replace any of your existing rolling stock with these upgraded models? What percentage?
Do you feel you would spend more time weathering, detailing, painting, etc, models if that time was available to you?
I’m not trying to create a bonfire here; I wanted get the pulse of the forum’s contributors. Please let’s be respectful of each other and no flaming. All opinions are welcome.
What is your opinion on the new models with prototype-specific details? Are you more inclined to purchase them now as opposed to previous less-detailed offerings?
Took many years to get here but,like the manufacturers warned us years ago…It can be done at a premium price…I think its a good thing overall…No,not because I change my primary scale from HO to N but,due to the iddy biddy pieces that breaks off if you sneeze to hard…I perfer the less detailed locos for club use and transporting.
If you have a free-lanced RR do the changes affect your purchases?
No…
If you follow a specific prototype, do you feel the changes are a relief, or an annoyance?
No…I perfer to model a specific time frame.
Would you rather install the specific details yourself?
Not now with the limited use of my right hand.
Companies like Kadee, Tangent, Athearn Genesis, and Proto 2000 have stepped up the quality of rolling stock. Are these types of models and their added cost important to you? If so why? If not, why?
No…Why? I need cars that will stand up to home and club use not museum pieces…[;)]
With more accurate models available, will you use the time previously spend on painting, decaling and detailing rolling stock and motive power to work on your layout (track, structures, scenery)?
Actually there is still modeling to do on most RTR cars…Changing out couplers,adding uncoupling bars,air hoses etc if one chooses that route.
Hypothetical question: If price was not a factor, would you replace any of your exi
No … I’m not going to upgrade … as to if I’ll buy … depends on the cost factor … prototypical or not I love those new flatcars from Lionel with the real wood decks ! I will probably make an effort to buy some of those .
So 7 -no 8 - yes … if I have the choice between proto or non and the cost is’nt way up there … I’ll buy the newer ones on future purchases though .
What is your opinion on the new models with prototype-specific details? Are you more inclined to purchase them now as opposed to previous less-detailed offerings?________________________________________________________________________________
I am more inclined now that I actually have money. Jobs help a lot. I do like the more prototype specific models, but I am worried that now that all of the USRA engines have been done, they only real cross spanning engines left are the Harrimans.
If you have a free-lanced RR do the changes affect your purchases?
Yes and no. For the purchases of that railroad no, for the other railroads that can be found using yes.
If you follow a specific prototype, do you feel the changes are a relief, or an annoyance?
Would you rather install the specific details yourself?
Some.
Companies like Kadee, Tangent, Athearn Genesis, and Proto 2000 have stepped up the quality of rolling stock. Are these types of models and their added cost important to you? If so why? If not, why?
Some of it is. I like the new Mathers, AAR, and PS rolling stock. These are the cars that would most likely be rolling around my proto-lancing era.
With more accurate models available, will you use the time previously spend on painting, decaling and detailing rolling stock and motive power to work on your layout (track, structures, scenery)?
#1 - I buy both with equal regularity - I have my own minimum detail standards, if the model meets or exceeds them, or is easily upgraded to them, I will purchase it to fill a roster need. While I have everything from Kadee RTR to Athearn Blue Box and Ready to Roll, as well as craftsman level kits of all types, I am a fan of “minimum effort upgrades”, it is fast and fun.
#2 - Yes I freelance, but no it has not really effected my purchases - see answer #1.
#3 - I also model three prototypes, it has helped some, but most of what was lacking is still lacking for those roads - no real improvement. Still no Western Maryland Pacific or B&O rebuilt passenger cars.
#4 - YES
#5 - Sometimes for new purchases, but not to the point of relpacing or shelving what I have.
#6 - Not really since as a freelancer, all home road stock requires painting and lettering anyway.
#7 - NO, I was raised not to be wasteful, frivolous or impulsive. I don’t buy things on a whim, I don’t discard them on a whim.
#8 - YES, when I can cut back my work shedule train time will expand in direct proportion.
As my eye and brain become more appreciative of all that my scale has to offer, I do appreciate, admire, and desire, the better “equipment”. Better meaning more accurate. It is nicer eye candy. I would want to have a few well-chosen such items, but a whole fleet of them? Naw, I am a frotolancer who would have sell some precious stuff to fill out the several stables he likes. So, I like what Walthers, BLI, and the other suppliers offer now.
Changes only affect me with new purchases or replacements, Not in orientation to the product or to my choices in frotolancing.
The changes are neither. They are what they are, and if they cost me for my decision to buy, I’m out the cash and I get the item. [shrug]
No, I would not rather install them myself. I don’t happen to find that part of the hobby fun. I want the looks, not the labour and aggravation.
Neither nor. If what they present appeals to me, and if I can swing it, it magically appears at my doorstep in short order. If I can’t swing it (for more reasons than just the shortage of disposable income), then it makes it way to someone else’s home. I would like some brass engines, but that is going to stay a pipe dream for the foreseeable future. Too costly. I would like to model a couple more roads, and even add some engines to ones I already run, but I have a rule about filling shelves and Rubbermaid totes with unused engines.
Possibly. I have begun to weather some items, and I enjoy it. Extra detailing I have covered already…don’t really see the need nor want it.
Again, possibly. If they were noticeably more accurate, but mostly if I could appreciate it when using and watching them, I would probably have a number of them, particularly for imaging them on the layout. Cost wou
Depends. I need to do my research first on how accurate they are
I sometimes even the paint is wrong for my time period. I would be better off doing it myself esp[ecially on the RTR stuff haveing those detail permanently affixed by an unbreakable bond
If the manufacturer included them for me to put on, I would prefer that in case I need to strip and repaint
I like accurate out of the box. If I need to pay some more for an accurate model AND paint, I gladly will do it provided what they are selling fits my timeframe
Nope I still have to kitbash some road specific cars thet aren’t offered. Then I have locos that need Canadianization
Nope, add to existing sure. Maybe after a while, if the difference was very noticable, I might get rid of the oldfer stuff but the original plan was not to replace
1. What is your opinion on the new models with prototype-specific details? Are you more inclined to purchase them now as opposed to previous less-detailed offerings? I think road-specific details are great. I don’t think I’d be more inclined to buy them compared to previous offerings. For example, the Atlas Classic C-425 of today is a much improved model for NH fans, while the original Yellow Box is not very New Haven at all other than the paint job (and even then…). But when the Yellow Box was all that was available (other than brass), I bought one. Now that the new Atlas Classic C-425’s are out, I will be buying only these from now on.
2. If you have a free-lanced RR do the changes affect your purchases? My club has had a free-lance road since 1938. If I’m buying something for it, I buy undec.'s so it really doesn’t effect my purchases at all. Better yet, most new undec.'s include a lot of road specific detail with them, so I get to choose which ones I want to add without buying a lot of extra detail parts.
3. If you follow a specific prototype, do you feel the changes are a relief, or an annoyance? Personally, I model the New Haven RR, and I find these extra details and changes a relief because now I get to run more accurate NH models without having to spend hours cutting, detailing, painting and decaling models. Instead, I’m running trains…which is what it’s all about to me.
4. Would you rather install the specific details yourself? No, I don’t want to do that. I will if I have to, but I’d rather not. The factory paint & finish is tough to match.
5. Companies like Kadee, Tangent, Athearn Genesis, and Proto 20
Yes, to some degree. When bashing, I find it somewhat easier to start with a fairly accurate model of a known prototype. The scope of changes needed is more easily researched before making the purchase. And the determination that too many changes are needed to justify the purchase is easier to make with a known prototype. With a generic model, I usually have to have the model in hand and make actual measurements to figure out what to do. Another advantage of an accurate model is the ability to run it as is, justified as a used purchase or similar, until I can bash it into something for my free-lance railway. Finally, I can use the known prototype information to determine region and era more accurately than I can with a generic, and better select foreign-road cars likely to be seen on my short line.
Answered in question #1. However, narrow gauge is a different animal. Except in Colorado, narrow gauge was a captive and closed operation. Generic works almost as well for a free-lance prototype since car interchange didn’t exist. With nearly everything HOn3 being Colorado and post-1920s specific (there are important exceptions), most HOn3 specific prototype production doesn’t interest me a whole lot.
Since I free-lance in both HO and HOn3, I much prefer kits to RTR so that I can make the changes as I build. With small rosters of locos and cars due to space, time, and money, kit building is preferred and not a detriment to other aspects of the hobby. I don’t suffer nearly the guilt modifying a kit as I&n
If I were in the market for a specific model I might be influenced by a model with specific details. For example, if I were to find a model of my namesake (SDCAT) I’d want it to have correct lettering, vents, etc. Otherwise? I doubt it. I am not a “rivet counter”. [swg]
I sort of do (CNW bought UP) but it would only affect future purchases if there’s a variance between what CNW (UP) ordered and other styles.
If someone wants an uber detailed model of every thing they own, rock on. Probably not for me tho.
Again, it depends on the part and the model. Generally speaking…probably not.
A boxcar with wheels is a…boxcar…to a point. I don’t want something that looks like Legos or a child’s toy though.
I am just learning about weathering…and trackwork is basically done so no.
Yes, but the percentage? Maybe 20…maybe.
Trade time for money and the necessary equipment/supplies on hand and yes.
I consider the models on my layout to be chess pieces - moving markers in the game of operation. As such, I neither need nor desire museum-quality detail. If it meets the so-called Three Foot Rule, it’s good.
All of my most recent purchases have been intended for kitbashing, not use as-is. As a result, I refuse to pay extra for detail that won’t survive the conversion.
The specific prototype I follow is the Japan National Railway system, circa 1964. I have not purchased anything prototype-specific in years.
I’d rather not install specific details at all if they are either fragile or invisible at 100 scale meters.
See my answer 3, above.
Short answer, no. Longer answer, I am not now, and never have been, a rivet-counting superdetailer. I am, have been and will continue to be a kitbasher and scratchbuilder working to a very specific prototype situation, even in my freelancing.
I have no intention of replacing my serviceable rolling stock with anything, for any reason.
Since I am fully retired, I do what I wish, when I wish, to my models and the railroad they run on. Mostly, I run them.
I will be the first to admit that I march to my own drummer, and that my position is NOT that of the mainstream. Since I am quite content to be what I am, and do not depend on the opinions of others to build my overinflated ego self-esteem, I am happy to stand on the sidelines of the ‘great debates’ and cheer, boo or ROFLMAO, as appropriate.
Now, about some prototype or modeling question based on facts or experience…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - my way)
Nope. I model 1900-1905 era. No major manufacturer has made a single new model in my era.
Since the only models made by a major manufacturer close to my era are the Roundhouse old timers (upgrades of a 35 year old design), I find it an annoyance because while the paint schemes are nicer, they only produce the models as decorated and RTR, so I basically have no “fodder” to kitbash any other cars from. The majority of my plastic railcar model purchases in the last 5 years have been whatever 20 year old MDC kits I can find at train shows.
Since I have to scratchbuilt, kitbash, or build craftsman kits for virtually every car I own, I don’t see adding details as a problem.
These companies think railroads were invented sometime around the Great Depression.
All the plastic models of wood cars from the pre -WW1 era are designs dating from the 1970’s.
Interesting question, so I’ll dive right in and answer.
Prototype specifics details don’t affect me as much as others because I’m a freelancer, not a prototype modeler. However, it is a way to get more-detailed models, and of course, if I want to model a patched out version of said locomotive, it’s easier to just buy the model with prototype specific details (
I would buy more detailed models if the price were the same… But I’m trying to build a good-looking, operating railroad on an incredibly tight budget. So my rolling stock is almost all used Athearn BB stuff from the 80s and 90s. With metal wheels, Kadee couplers, weathering , they run as fine as the more expensive equipment, and look acceptable enough to me. Plus, when you’re trying to figure out that tough switching move or running helper ops trying to keep from stalling on the grade, you don’t notice the molded-on details or anything else.
For locomotives, I model a shortline with all used power, so I don’t have to worry about different phases and grill styles. Sure, much of my power is ex-B&M, so they do have a prototype, but I make a point of NOT researching the details of the B&M’s loco fleet. Ignorance is bliss!
For me it does not really matter. I do it for fun, I do not notice all the little details that would make something proto. Everyone that will ever see what I hope to build will never know if it is proto or not. There are no clubs within a decent driving distance and cost is definately a factor. I hate to weather something costing me a bunch of money that I have the potential to really screw up bad. You can always make a less expensive car look better but you can really do the opposite pretty quick to an already high end model.
Just my 2 cents worth. I would like to see roundhouse kit types or blue box types on the market more readily. Cheap in most aspects but still look respectable without any work.
I’m not too particular about this either way as I’m more into the freelance side of things. I also tend to buy the lokes I use in whatever way they come and just build them up a bit. Having said that though I’m really not so sure I’d buy them based just on the prototypical looks. I’d like to see how well they would work as well.
Nyet—
If I followed a prototype I might get a bit annoyed if i found that it wasn’t quite there either—some lokes also had a history of modifications over a certain time frame–
Yes, I do like to do them myself, thank you very much----
I’m at the point that I’d only need a few more pieces to do the trick. I’ve been a little more careful with the purchasing but that is more due to needing specific pieces. Cost isn’t much of an issue—I usually save then get them then-----
I’d still be building up—most of my lokes still need snowplows and such-----and hey, they ain’t building my freelance in my corporate colours
I am modeling the New Haven Railroad. Of course I want prototype specific models. A Pennsy K-4 pacific doesn’t look anything like a NH I-4 Pacific. Nothing available even comes close to the I-5 Shoreliner 4-6-4, not even the NYC streamline Hudson. I don’t want diesels with dynamic braking, if they weren’t used on the New Haven. And don’t try to pass off some E-8s painted New Haven, They never had any.
This is a no brainer, either I am modeling the New Haven or I am back to freelancing again.
Yes, as long as it’s the specific model and date range that I’m looking for.
This doesn’t really apply in my case, since I model a specific railroad in a specific time.
A little of each, actually. See, I ENJOY applying details to locomotives, but at the same time, I like the fact that there are road-specific (and time-specific) details on locomotives today. Twenty-odd years ago when I first got heavily into prototypical modeling, you had to do everything yourself.
See my answer to #3. [:)]
As far as freight cars, no. While I enjoy researching locomotives, the near-infinite variety of freight cars makes my eyes glaze over. There was a similar thread over on another forum recently, and my answer here is pretty much the same…when a string of freight cars is rolling down the tracks, who’s really going to notice that the model is 1 scale foot too long, or that the door is 6" too far towards one end?
Passenger cars are another matter, at least to me. [:)]
I think the more detailed models are quite attractive but are totally out of my price range.
These changes do not affect my freelanced layout.
Even though my layout includes a couple of prototype railroads my freelanced line interchanges with, the added details are not all that necessary to me.
A small amount of detailing added to an Athearn Blue Box or Accurail Kit is as far as I usually go.
The upgraded lines are simply out of my budget so they mean little to my layout.
As I can’t afford the more detailed models, I will spend the same amount of time on other aspects of my layout.
Price not a factor? Dream on!
As I don’t have that much free time now, any means of increasing my layout work time would help.
A project I’m working on currently is a repaint and detailing of an Athearn Blue Box F7A shell. I bought it for $1 in the NAPA auto parts promotional scheme, stripped it and repainted it in the Southern Pacific Black Widow scheme. I’m adding the Walthers detail kit and some decals I made on my computer. A little weathering and that’s as far as I intend to go. Total cost so far? About $10 including paint and decal paper used. My last loco purchase was an Athearn RTR F7A in Santa Fe Warbonnet scheme for $20. That’s the most I’ve spent on any rolling stock is the last five years!