Rude experience at a train show.

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
41

There is a very disturbing trend in some of these posts. In two or three posts, people seem to suggest that they are owed something for their honesty. I certainly don’t want to belabor the point, but really, all you should reasonably expect for returning someone’s property or money to them is a smile and a thank you. And if you don’t get it, well, that’s a bad on the other guy, not you. To expect a finders fee or reward for returning cash strikes me as equally rude and greedy.

Now to the topic at hand: everyone selling something should understand it’s value, and if he undervalues it, shame on him. You as the buyer should feel no remorse for having taken advantage of him. It’s probably better, though, if you take your major score home and quietly gloat in the car, rather than doing anything in the presence of the seller. Human nature being what it is, no one is going to be happy with being on the losing end of a deal. Granted, no one likes a sore loser, but someone who is barely making ends meet doesn’t see it that way, nor does someone who’s not doing well at the show and is looking at losing money for the day / weekend.

While it is not legal in a retail store to reprice merchandise at the register, if you enter into a discussion of the price of the product PRIOR to purchasing it, then the seller is within his rights to reprice it. Not good business, because it will likely cost you the customer (see the earlier posting where the merchant insisted that the customer take the lower price), but it’s not illegal or unethical, either. However, a train show isn’t a retail establishment, so even that logic may not apply.

42

I have a somewhat different take on this-- with a couple exceptions here and there-- IMO, in general, all things being equal, I am of the opinion that if someone puts something up for sale, appropriately priced or not, I have every right to purchase it, even if I’m “getting a steal” and take advantage of the good opportunity. If the seller later discovers their error then I believe: (a) they were “educated” and education is not free, nor should it be; (b) if their “education” occurs quickly then they are free to appeal to my better nature and maybe I will and maybe I won’t relent and renegotiate. I generally feel no moral compunctions or obligations…

…except (!) when it seems apparent that the seller is fumbling badly-- perhaps trying to help someone else out by doing the sale (a deceased person’s family for instance), or perhaps its stupendously obvious they are operating out of their element, or perhaps its a young person without a lot of “life experience”, or something similar-- in those situations I generally go out of my way to disclose what I know (if anything) and assist them in making a good sale (or at least an informed one). I even go so far as to purposely overpay in some situations where I think the seller is trying in good faith to do their best but is obviously unable to do so.

A case in point, I recently purchased a second-hand band saw from a woman on craig’s list. We exchanged some emails, haggled just a little, and then when I got there she had unilaterally decided to drop the price by a third. [Edit: Dropped it to One-third of the original] I considered her offer, and even though she seemed insistent on her price, I gave

43

I returned the money because it is what I would want to happen if the roles were reversed. The only difference is I would have at least said THANK YOU. It doesn’t cost anything to say it. If someone who was dishonest found and kept it would he have it? I was always taught that it pays to be polite. What hurt me was the non acknowledgment that I did him a BIG favor by finding and returning it to him. For those of you who disagrees with my disappointment from this fellow I hope you DO NOT lose anything and it is not returned.

I guess I should get the attitude that no good deed goes unpunished.

Pete

44

Yes, but your story seems to suggest that if you help your fellow man you should get “cash” in return, which is not the same thing.

How do you know that seller didn’t see you later in the day standing at a booth looking wistfully at something you couldn’t afford, went over and chatted a moment with the dealer and you ended-up with a surprisingly affordable “deal” ???

Or perhaps it wasn’t that same day but the next show, or maybe you were rewarded in some other way you didn’t expect.

I firmly believe that if you help your fellow man you do get “good” in return, but that life has all sorts of ways of rewarding good people, and vise versa.

Just think, if your seller-nemesis is like that all the time, he stands a pretty good chance of having hyper-tension and increased risk for a stroke or heart attack. Whereas if he’d been easy-going and good-natured about it, especially if he’d literally “laughed it off”, it would have relieved his stress, boosted his immune system and probably added to his time on the planet.

Those platitudes often have a real, actual fundamental basis-- even though most people just see them as a “moral credo”-- there may be more to this “karma” thing than a bumper sticker…

“Excuse me, my Karma just ran over your Dogma!”

[:D]

45

Er, no. More like a “Miss Demeanor” column…

46

But then you said, next time, you’d keep the money.

I have done similar things on several occasions without getting a reward (which you also said you expected–10% off, remember?) or a thank you… because it’s what is right.

You should “get the attitude” that when you do the right thing, you don’t expect to be rewarded for it. How were you “punished” for this “good deed?”

47

I’d just be happy if I had a wife someday that even knows what a DD35A is.

48

I can’t see any problem with taking an engine over to a public test track to see if you can get it to run. As the old saying goes “you pays your money and you takes your chances”. In this case the seller was the one who thru his ignorance sold something lower than it should have been. Too bad. Once money changes hands, the deal’s done.

I would contact the people who run the local train shows and find out if he’s going to be there, and then tell the people running it what happened and that you won’t be there if he is there. Odds are you’re not the only one to have an issue, at some point train show promoters might decide having the money from one seller isn’t worth his driving people away.

49

Hey, it could have been worse. He could have bought everything the guy brought with him (with his own money). Thinking he sold everything, he packed up and left early. JUST KIDDING!!

50

If one is patient you might find the DD40 engine for a few bucks on eBay plus shipping. Heck, I have one of the older ones that has rotted for 30 years and counting…

Walking away from a 50 dollar [price hike] sale is a good move.

51

My wife is about as big of a train fan as I am. She is a big Chessie System and Norfolk and Western fan, and she has asked what a DD35A, DDA40X, and an ALCO C855 would look like painted for the Chessie and the N&W.

Aside from a few of the larger engines, and a few of my favorites, she does not know most other diesel locomotive types from memory, but with steam engines, she knows most of them quite well. Her favorite is the 2-6-6-6 (Because the C&O had them…).

She gets comments from quite a few guys at train shows about how envious they are that she takes as active role in model railroading as she does. Right now she is in the process of preparing to scratch build her first car in TT scale, using plans in a book that she bought.

The memory on her camera is full of trains, from trips to Steamtown, to passing Amtrak trains, to short video clips of trains on the Horseshoe Curve…

I am quite positive that her credentials as a rail-fan are as solid as any guys…

52

I no longer go to this hobby shop. I had scratch built some buildings thet came out pretty good,but had no place on my layout for them. I brought them to this hobby shop to have him sell them on consignment. We agreed on a price, at 25% his 75% me.They sold very quickly. I thought I got my 75% and was happy with that, but a few weeks later I found out who bought them and learned he paid much more for them than what hobby shop owner and I agreed on.I am still happy with what I got,but he wasn’t honest with me about what he sold them for.had he told me what he really got i would not have wanted more. I setteled for what I agreed on, its just that I dont like to do business with dishonest people. So I dont go to that shop any more.

53

I’ve did that once with a “junk” Athearn BB fat body GP35 many years ago and recieve a cussing out.Needless to say that was my last time.

You see the dealer lost his cool and said I “cheated” him because I knew what was wrong with the foul,foul,locomotive and proceed to ramp and rave while cussing me out.Made a terrible scene over a $12.50 locomotive.

54

Unfortunately,you can’t please everyone!!

You sell something too low,they think it’s crappy and won’t buy it!!!

Sell too high,they think it’s too valuable and they won’t buy it!!!

Sell it for a fair price and they still won’t buy it!!!

Go figure!!

“Remember,Cute and Cuddly Boys!!Cute and Cuddly!!”-Skipper:The Madagascar Penguins.

55

You didn’t know Miss Manners was a model railroader who scratchbuilds Z scale steam locomotives and flies around the world doing good deeds?

Actually, she knits Z scale steam locomotives, but you get the idea.

Andre

56

I had a table at a small swap meet a couple years ago. I was set up well before opening,and all the dealers were shopping around before the doors opened.This one dealer came over and bought all my scratchbuilt card board structures and some other stuff. Then he saw I had two Sheepscot kits. I was asking $175. I LET him talk me down to $150 and I sold em. About an hour after the show opened I walked by his tables on my way for coffe and he had all my stuff out on his table for sale. The Sheepscot kits he had marked up to $450!!!. I guess I came out all right though as he had all that stuff at the end of the day. I moved about half my stuff and went home happy. I like to attend swap meets but am still not a big fan of setting up a table.Just not a business man I guess. BILL

57

[quote user=“Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760”]

I did not find out her name, but the banner on her booth said Scotsman’s Trains.

I found the website for the group that runs the shows held at that location, and am going to file a report with them as soon as I get a reply back, as their “contact us” page only allows a 128 character message, hardly enough to describe the seller and how she treated my wife.

I have had something similar happen before at a show in Williamantic, CT a few years ago. There was a guy that was selling a few Varney “Old Lady” 2-8-0’s and “Casey Jones” 4-6-0’s, of which I have a small number of each. He had a Varney 4-6-0 for $5. He said that the engine was a derelict and would never run again, as it shorted out every time he ran it.

I paid him the $5, and looked the engine and tender over, one of the tender trucks had been reversed, so short would always occur if placed on live tracks. The test stand was in sight of that seller’s booth, so when I got the engine to purr like a kitten, he was furious.

He came over to the test tracks and demanded that I pay him $40 more since the engine runs, or he was going to take the engine back. ($45 was the price of the other Varney 4-6-0’s he was selling). I told him that I paid the price that he asked and that I was not going to buy from him again.

He tried claiming that I swapped tags to one of the staff members at the show, who had seen me perform the repairs and had even heard the discussion the seller and I had about the engine before I bought it. Needless to say, the staff member sided with me, and told the guy to give me my engine back.

Every time we passed that guy’s booth at shows that he is at, he calls me a “jerk”, “cheat”, and a negative religious reference that I would rather not type here.

That seller has been at that particular show, at the same area for the past few years, despite problems that other people have had with him as well.

It has gotten to the point that my wife insists th

58

You absolutely did the right thing and the only way to get through to those type of people is not to buy from them. I can’t say weather or not reporting her to the promoter would have gotten you any where. The only thing that I seen close to that was a young kid was looking at an engine a dealer had on the table which was honestly a piece of junk. When he picked it up the shell came loos from the chassis and the chassis fell back into the box. The guy got all in the kids face and said you broke it you pay for it. Before the kid could mutter a single word two or three guys jumped in and said what are you trying to pull. the one guy said I just picked that piece of ______ up two minutes a go and it did the same thing to me. From there lets just say the crowd got a little hostile towards the guy. Unfortunately you find peple like that no matter where u go. It’s ashame they ruin it for others.

59

That’s amusing! [:D]

60

Well, I got a call back from one of the guys in charge of that particular show. He said that up until that show, he had never even heard of that woman, and we both agreed that she did not know anything about model trains at all.

He said that he would try to talk to her as soon as possible, and let her know that her way of doing business just is not right, and that if she refuses to comply to standards that the TCA uses for selling items, then she will not be allowed back again.