While our club members were attempting to program loco decoder addresses in new decoders i.e. decoders either installed straight out of the package or already installed in newly purchased locos, several locos bolted at high uncontrollable speed as soon as power was applied to the programming track, before starting to program or after what was thought to be successful address programming.
In addition we seemed to have problem with not being able to acquire several loco’s with either a DT300 or a UT4 throttle after what was thought to be successful four digit address programming. This appeared to happen only with four digit addressing.
As early DCC learners we’re still sorting out why. We have another learning session coming up this week, in the meantime here are several questions:
Does it matter if the applied track power setting is in normal loco run mode before switching to programming mode? Are we getting a problem by starting in loco run mode?
The Digitrax instructions for the DT300 throttle say that after inputting two digit addresses in program mode, pressing the SEL key programs the decoder and enables two digit addressing, following which you can program other CV’s or exit programming mode.
For four digit addresses you are prompted to set CV29 (128 speed steps) and to press the Y+ key to enable the four digit address (not required with two digit addressing). Maybe we’re missing these steps?
Are you programming them on a dedicated programming track, as in somehow electrically isolated from the rest of the layout? That could be part of the problem, and if you’re not, it’s definitely worth setting one up. As for the locos taking off right away, just about all new decoders default to ‘03’ as their address, so it sounds like you have a throttle somewhere set to control ‘03’ that’s set to a high speed.
What command station are you using?
It doesn’t matter if the loco is run first before doing any programming; all decoders have a set of default values that let you test it out before customizing it.
I haven’t done any CV programming through my DT-300 (I much prefer doing it on the computer via DecoderPro), but I’ll dig out the manual and see if I can offer suggestions. However, I can suggest that if your club is doing a lot of decoder programing that you first setup a dedicated programming track, and then get DecoderPro and something like the Locobuffer II to connect it to your Digitrax system, and use an old computer or laptop to do all the programming on-screen.
jsalemi has the answer, I think. One of your throttles has the 03 address on it with the throttle rotated clockwise during the last use, probably with a speed setting in excess of 60 scale mph.
Once you are sure you have an electrically isolated programming track, you can always put a book over the track in front of the loco to prevent it from destroying itself. It’ll just spin like crazy.
We were using a separate programming track and did not have another throttle plugged in. The command station was a DB150. The decoders were DH121’s or DH123’s.
If you’re going to be doing a lot of programming, the first thing I would recommend is getting that DB-150 replaced with a DCS-100. The trouble with the DB-150 (and its 8-amp counterpart the DB-200’) is that these are the only boosters Digitrax makes that DOESN’T allow you to read what you’ve programmed into the decoder. If you have a large layout the DB-150 can be used as a seconadary booster for other lines.
After that I would do what has been recommended, and download Decoder Pro, load it into an old laptop, and get either a LocoBuffer, or the MS-100 interface from Digitrax. I’ve used them both and find the LocoBuffer the superior product.
Decoder Pro when used with a read/write booster allows the eaisest programming out there. Plus you can save your programming and if that decoder ever needs reprogramming or replacement, its a simple matter to bring up the saved file and download it back into the decoder.
The programming track doesn’t have enough power going to it on a continuous basis to make the loco take off. Unless there is a fault in the hardware.
Is this a DCS100 or DB150? A DB150 doesn’t have a seperate program track output, and when you are not in program mode on the throttle, it DOES have full power.
He said it’s a DB150, which means that it’s probably not going into programming mode properly. The suggestion to get a DB100 and use that is one I’d second – it has a true, low-power dedicated programming track output that doesn’t pass anything other than programming commands from the command station.
You mean a DCS100, the DB100 is the old Big Boy booster and is basically a DB150 with no command station capabilities. Great for extra boosters if you can find them cheap, which is almost never, since they really aren’t obsolete thanks to Loconet. Since this is a club, a DCS100 would be a better choice, dedicated programming track and the CV readback alone make it worth it. If more throttles are needed, a whole Super Chief set is a better buy than the DCS100 plus DT400. And programming is a heck of a lot easier with a DT400. If this were a home layout I’d suggest a Zephyr, most of the DCS100 features but less power and only 10 (or 12) locos instead of 120.
I still agree with the previous answer, Loco 03 is cranked up. They then throw the switch which isolates the programming section from the main, put a new decoder on it - WHOOM! Or if the address isn’t changed and left at the default, as soon as programmign mode is exited - WHOOM! Try calling up 03 in regular mode - bet it prompts to Steal it. Make sure the speed is 0, and then release the address. Try programming again.
i have digitrax dcc on my home layout now for about 5 months now and my club has it on theirs for about 2 months. we do not use a programing track as we program on the main line with no other locos on at the time of programing except the loco being programed. we have the db150 and a dt400r throttle with several members having the ut4r throttles. members either program their locos on their home layout or come in early and program on the clubs layout before operations begin for the evening. digitrax has four modes for programing and some decoders other than digitrax can be programed on only one or two of them. we havent had to use the four digit programing yet but we’re getting close to it. we haven’t had any problems programing this way. i just tried to program a four digit # on one of my locos at home with a dh123 decoder and i couldn’t do it. not only could i not program a four digit # i couldn’t reprogram the loco for a two digit # until i reset cv08 to 008/x08 which resets the decoder back to factory settings with an address of 03. success!! by resetting the decoder back to it’s basic setting it enabled me to program a four digit # successfully. now i’ll try it on it’s consist mate. yes it worked. success. both have now gotten a four digit address and are back in their consist hookup. try resetting the decoder to it’s factory settings and try it again. good luck.
Thanks to all for the great responses. This Saturday we’ll be having another go at programming or reprogramming loco’s and running them by the book and noting your comments.
We’ve been using a DB150 command station and DT 300 or UT4 throttles so far. However we do have a Super Chief set complete with the DCS100 command station, DT400 throttle plus a PS2012 20 Amp power supply and PM42 power managers, but have yet to read up and to install them. That’s another Saturday task.
At least plug in the DT400 throttle from the Super Chief set when trying to program, it will be a LOT easier. It wouldn’t be that big a deal to swap out the DB150 for the DCS100, except you’d have to redo the wiring for the programming track. Or you could set the whole works up on the bench, connect a piece of track to the program terminals, and program on the bench then take them to the layout and run, at least until your electrical crew gets the wiring done and puts the DCS100 on the layout. But no matter what, DEFINITELY use the DT400. The DT300 has too many ‘combo buttons’ with shift this and shift that. The DT400 has none of that, MUCH easier to use.
Good idea Randy, as we’re still at the bench lashup stage.
Two more questions have since come up in our discussions:
As the DB150 is default set for 128 speed step operation and the DT300 and DT400 throttles automatically enable 4 digit addressing, is it necessary to deliberately set CV29 to decimal 038/hex x26 before pressing the Y=key with DH121and DH123 decoders?
Is there a simplified English explanation for what the hexadecimal system is about in relation to the decimal system. Why should tired old engineers who graduated before electrons were invented be bothered with it?
The Zephyr and (I believe) the DT400 throttles have a simplified system for setting the 4-digit address that’s explained pretty well in the manual. Basically, they let you choose whether you’re going to use 2 or 4 digit, and if you choose 4-digit, the system automatically will put the proper value in CV29 for you. So pressing the ‘Y’ key takes care of this, and you don’t have to do it manually. FYI, pages 71 - 73 in the Super Chief manual explain how to use the DT400 to do this, in to me better detail than the DT300’s manual explains it.
Hexadecimal comes from the computer programming world of ‘ancient times’. It’s a base-16 system, where decimal is of course base-10. It uses base-16 because computers are really binary, and it was easier to specify addresses and values in larger numbers than zeros and ones (10 hex = 2 bytes of data). In hex, the numbers 10 through 15 are represented by A, B, C, D, E & F. And like in decimal, multiples of 16 add a digit to the right, so 17 is 11 in hex, 31 is 1F, 32 is 20, and so on.
Besides knowing that for historical purposes, you really don’t have to worry about hex with modern decoders and command stations. Some older decoders could only be programmed in hex, but the ones you’re using all “understand” decimal (actually, the command station does the translation from hex to decimal for you). So you really only have to worry about the decimal inputs.
But keep in mind Digitrax hex isn’t ‘real’ hex - although that only really applies to the DT100 throttle. The DT300 and DT400 don’t need hex. You can program with just the decimal numbers. But it’s a lot easier to figure out a bitmap CV like CV29 using hex. Maybe it’s because I’ve been in computers so long it’s like second nature - heck my fist computer had a hex keypad and LEDs for input and output, I had no choice but to know hex.
As for programming CV29 - no, you shouldn’t have to set it when doing the address programming. Just make sure before hitting Y it says AD4 or AD2 as appropriate for the address you are programming. With the DCS100 or Zephyr, since it can READ the current address from the program track, you get to pick 2 or 4 digit when programming the address - I think it’s the left knob on the DT300/400 you turn so it says either AD2 or AD4, and then right knob or, at least with the 400, key in the desired address. CV29 will be set automatically.
The throttle does not default to 4 digit addresses, the only out of the box default there is is for 128 speed steps, which is the reason for ‘status editing’ to run a loco configured for 14 or 28 speed steps. The address being 2 or 4 digit is simply controlled by the settings inthe decoder. You can select and run any address, 2 or 4 digit, without doing anything special. Digitrax enforces addresses 1-127 as being ‘2-digit’ - see, here’s where hex comes in again, 127 in hex IS a 2-digit number) and 128+ as being 4-digit.
Isambard. i may have found the reason for your clubs runaway loco problem. at my clubs meeting tonight one of our members placed a loco on the track and it started to move at mid speed without having been selected on the dt400r controller. at the time two other locos were running with different decoder #'s than the runaway. the other locos were running with ut4r controllers so i dialed in the runaway locos decoder with the dt400 and found that the speed was set to 40 in the memory of either the dt400r or the db150. turning the knob to zero stopped the runaway. so before you place a loco on the rails dial in the decoder #, whether it is 03,22, 66 or whatever and see what speed is displayed. the last time the loco ran it was probably not dispatched properly at the end of a session. i have also found that turning the knob clockwise to select a throttle to assign an address to will set a speed for the loco that is selected and will start it moving as soon as it is selected. i always turn the control knobs counter clockwise to keep them at zero. i hope this helps.
Thanks to Joe, Randy and Retsignalmtr for the last three responses.
I’m reasonably sure I’ve now got the answers we need. The next sesion will confirm, hopefully.
Having read and re-read the explanations on hex, which I have no doubt are as clear as can be, I’ll take a pass on using the system, as it will be more fun running trains, or trying to understand the Universe (I’m reading Bill Bryson’s “A Short History of Nearly Everything”).
Boy, I really love my old DC layout with walkaround throttles. I turn on the power, turn one knob and my 4 locomotive lashup runs like a Swiss watch. The only runaway I’ve ever had was when my old Troller pack went haywire in 1979. I got into model railroading to be a locomotive engineer, not a freakin’ electrical engineer! I really can’t see the fun in having to plow through and understand some of the previous posts. Sorry, but I just couldn’t help myself.
Yeah but with DC you can’t have two trains collide head-on because somone ignored a signal. [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]
Seriously, it is FAR easier to wire up than a 5-cab DC control system. Talk about miles of wire… And there’s really nothing complicated about operating it, punch in the number on the can of the loco, select forward or reverse, and turn the knob. You are now free to drive all over your layout without touching a single toggle switch anywhere.
I believe it would be easier to substitute the DCS100 for the Db150 and use the DT400 throttle and a separate programming track to program your decoders, I use a siding on the front of my system that is very accessable. I use a DPDT switch to switch from normal to programming. You must isolate both rails fromn the rest of your system and depend on feeds through the switch.
I have another problem with my system with runaway locomotives. Whenever I turn on my system; 1-DCS100, 1-DB150, 1-DB200 and a PM42, if I do not switch my DCS100 from sleep before turning on the other two boosters I have trains running uncontrolably on the sections of my system powered by the two boosters. I have checked all cables, both boosters have the slave strap in place and all are grounded to the DCS100. Walt
