I think the responses to this thread are interesting in that it gives some insight into some of the ways we approach the hobby in general. Many folks obviously desire what I would call longer trains, whereas I prefer the way shorter trains look on a layout and the sense of distance they provide. And my layout is not small at 13 x 30!
Mainline railroading with 15 foot long trains is obviously very popular.
I need to find a one-horse short line support group somewhere.[:(]
I like to run one of my Articulated’s sometimes with a double header, Mike in behind pulling 50-60 empty ore cars.
When running ops at the club trains can be anywhere from a few cars long to a couple of dozen. If running a local you really don’t want the train too long.
News flash: Not everyone has a giant basement to fill with trains. We have to live within our means. The size of the space available constrains the length of train. Then operational considerations and visual appeal on that layout constrain it even more. Every layout is different and what looks good on one won’t on another.
I’ll be there as well. My inspiration was the branch where I grew up. Trains were a single switcher (RS-1 typically) with 3-4 cars and caboose. Went through a period when I had the room and was modeling n-scale where I was running 3-4 SD-40s and 30 car trains. Over time I found that boring and after a move switched back to HO, even though I had less room. My current layout can handle about a 5 car train without appearing overloaded.
For the heck of it, I have put a couple of SDs and a 20 car train on the line just to see what happened. Even without considering that it was too large for my sidings, it visually over powered the layout. It actually made the towns and layout look smaller. Partly I think it’s a trick of the mind. My little 5 car train leaves point A and goes to point B. In between it covers some distance. When looking you see open country, the train, then more country so it seems like it’s going somewhere. But when I put the larger train on there, instead of looking like it was covering some miles between towns, it looked like I was standing in one spot train watching as a long train rolled by. So I do think that is part of what drives our choices in train lenght – what is the effect we’re after?
My trains tend to fall between a protoypical consist, and whether a fair number of engines can pull it. Case in point, I;m modelling the James Whitcomb RIley circe 53, but with only 4 coaches. the RIley can go up to 8, plus a diner, through sleeper from the Southern, a combine, and an observation, as well as a fair mix of Head-end. But, the pics I;ve seen have been a signle Hudson, whixh is happy enough with the train it’s got. Now, I know RIley did doublehead with some frequency, so someday I just might.
Otherwise, I tend to veiw my trains from a pictguresque angle. Usually, from a modelled street or overpass, so I cannot see the whole train to realize it fills the entire layout. Rarely do I find myself adiring the layout from an overview. I may see it that way a lot, but then I’m usually not watching the trains themselves.
That being said, most of my modle layout will be shortline trains. I’ve grown their buisness from one train to up to three, but that’s on a good day. Per a 1954 PRR timetable, CMPA trains operating the Madison Incline may be no longer than 12 cars coming UP, or 10 cars coming DOWN. Reasoning, the downhill grade is steep enough that any more is pushing the braking capacity of the lead engine, and besides that, any more cars i just stupid on a 5.89% grade.
Ironically, the Madison Hill has another rule. A MINIMUM length of two cars to assure proper braking capability fo the train.
Upgrade, train length wil be whatever gets the job done. Most of the time, it won’t peak past 15, but CMPA will be doing fleet storage work, so it’s possible come New Car season, ~25 cars of Autoracks or Grain Hoppers or what-have you will be snaking their way up to the interchange with Chessie to go to work. I fiigure it should be two to three times the length of a normal CMPA train to give the impression of a monster train, at least for a 20mi shortline.
Yes, I’m also a weirdo who wants a large basement so he doesn’t have to selectively c
I would be willing to bet that my short trains are more prototypical than your long trains.
Please tell us what era and train size you are running on your layout.
To me, normal longest train length is one of the most important inputs into a layout design. Normal longest train length directly impacts:
- passing siding length
- staging track length
- yard arrival/departure track
- main line between towns/passing sidings/stations
- yard track and yard drill track lengths
- switchback tail lengths on the main
- reversing loop or wye tail length used to reverse trains (not just an engine)
In each of these instances, one has to think long and hard about making any of these less than a normal longest train long. There are instances where any of these can be less than the longest train length, but it must be considered whether or not an operational bottleneck has been created by making the track too short. Conversely, the shortest of these in an existing layout is usually going to drive the most common longest train length to avoid bottle-necking operations.
As has been pointed out, planning for longer trains also requires looking at raising the minimum radius to avoid stringlining, and keeping grades reasonable.
As far as prototype goes, I find it very enlightening to study the tonnage ratings for various locomotives, and the normal trains that were operated over segments of the narrow gauge D&RG and Northwest Pacific. Very seldom did I see more than 18 car trains as possible or practical with the locomotives on hand in 1900 - and often trains that long would be double-headed.
In model railroading, switching more than a 10 car train tends to be more time-consuming and less reliable than one might desires. Running around a 20+ car train for a switching move at scale speeds might be prototypi
Really? Train length of 16 feet? And you don’t have a layout yet? Good luck with that. I agree that longer trains are fun to watch, but the practical reality most of us face is that there’s only so much space to work with.
I could theoretically run a train of 16’ on my N scale layout, but it would look stupid doing it. It would also quickly succumb to the laws of gravity and other physics, string-lining and dumping cars all over the ground.
Rather than assi
Oh, intercourse the layout!!!
With (limited) apologies to Monty P.
MS
Huh? There is a daily train here in Denver over to the industries along the west side of the Platte river. It is at MOST 12 cars. Often only 6. The UP Sunday Brighton train runs 8-20 cars. The Santa Fe daily trains #67 & #68 were often only two cars, one freight and the combine. The Wichita Frisco tri-weekly. The N&W virginia creeper (Abingdon branch). The Santa Fe every other day Bristol branch train. Those are just what I can cite. I’ve seen hundreds of “short” real trains that I don’t know the ID of.
Gold Star, Sandusky… I’m glad someone around here is paying attention!
Now it’s time to end this thread, as it’s become unnecessarily silly!
Lee
[quote user=“wm3798”]
sandusky:
BATMAN:
sandusky:
I decided one day that I didn’t think you could really get the feel of mainline operations with trains of less than 16 feet in length (loco/locos and caboose not included). I use this for both HO and O scale 2r. As I don’t have a layout up yet, I’ve yet to test this theory out.
Mike
Okay I’ll bite. What’s the thinking behind the theory?
I think that it’s long enough to have sense of beginning, middle and end; that is, the entire train can’t be seen at once. Of course, having a bunch of visual barriers would help, but I think I want to have a similar experience to watching a train pass at a grade crossing. It’s also a reaction to all the Lionel sets that came with 4-5 cars.
MS
Brent
Really? Train length of 16 feet? And you don’t have a layout yet? Good luck with that. I agree that longer trains are fun to watch, but the practical reality most of us face is that there’s only so much space to work with.
I could theoretically run a train of 16’ on my N scale layout, but it would look stupid doing it. It wou
The length of my freight trains is dictated by the length of my sidings.
The length of my passenger trains is dictated by the length of my station platforms.
Rich
Wouldn’t it be most logical to establish train length like the 1:1 railroads do? In there is a UP branch that serves about 20 (estimated) industrial facilities. The daily local freight is usually about 5 cars pulled by a small (8 wheel) diesel. The train is made up of the right number of cars to satisfy the orders for that day; they don’t add extra cars just to make it look better
On my layout the railroad has 5 customers; to me it makes sense to assemble a train that has a few empty cars of the types that each customer requires, and a few that are loaded with materials that those plants have ordered, then venture around the layout spotting cars and picking up the loaded ones. At the end of the run, the entire train is different from the one that departed, and it is probably slightly longer or shorter.
I also run a few log-laden cars - those are more like unit trains; they run from the logging camp to the sawmill, carrying nothing but logs. The length of these is determined by the amount of weight that a small shay can pull up a grade.
Train length is determined by the needs of the customer and the railroads.
On my layout, the customers receive between 2-6 cars inbound and 1-3 cars outbound on a bi-weekly schedule (The railroad operates on Monday and Thursday).That means 1-3 cars inbound and 1-2 cars outbound for the day that it’s operated.
It’s a former branch line with interchange only on one end. That said, It’s a ludicrous statement to say that a train with less than 16 cars is not prototypical. The Baltimore and Annapolis Railroad often ran their trains with just an engine and a box car (a box car load of paper for a newspaper plant) on an as needed basis.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1967702
The beauty of railroading, both real and model is the rainbow of operations and equipment. That said, if you don’t like short trains, don’t run them or look at them. If you don’t like long trains, don’t run them or look at them. Freedom is beautiful baby.
But Flashwave, if you’re working in a fairly typical model railroad environment, say a 12 x 14 room (which is pretty generous if you live with other human beings) your 16’ long train would never have the opportunity to stretch out on a tangent, nor would it ever be able to reach track speed owing to the fact that the engine is passing one town while the rear end is still in the yard. And God forbid you are one of those poor souls struggling to express yourself on a 4x8…[:#]
There’s no question that train length in the real world is predicated on the business of the thing, but us modelers are generally striving for a less literal interpretation. Just as our yards have to be smaller, our industries more compact, and our towns closer together, it’s no crime to abbreviate the length of your trains.
Lee
I have either “operating sessions” or “running sessions”.
Running sessions allow a variety of train lengths and various equipment.
Operating sessions are intended to simulate a real railroad transportation company. Freight moving from industries in city A must be delivered to other industries in City B.
A road train stops in CIty A and sets off cars for its industries and picks up cars for City B and beyond. Prior to arrival in CIty A, a local train has switched cars at industries in town. After the road train departs City A, the local train is busy delivering inbound cars.
As the road train moves into City B, similar work is performed with its local train.
My branch line has short trains which typically have only two boxcars.
The local trains are small trains, and the road train is much longer. The actual length depends on the work to be performed. However, this is a model railroad, and train sizes are restricted to manageable sizes.
My passenger trains tend to be longer in my running sessions than in the operating sessions. I will run a transcontinental train during a running session. I will run a smaller local passenger train in operating session, and I will assume it connects with transcontinental trains in the terminating city.