I want to run grain, coal, and intermodal unit trains and manifest freight trains on my next HO layout, obviously the size of a layout would determine how many cars you run on each train. Does anyone out there run 40+ car trains on their layout, the train would probably be around 30 ft. long if the average size of the cars was 7.25 inches? Im constructing a layout that consumes the whole basement so I want to run as large as I can.
That’s OK but, just remember, the longer your trains the smaller it makes your layout “appear”, something to remember when making up your trains.
Mark
Another thing to consider is the longer the trains you want the longer the passing sidings and yard tracks must be. If you exceed a certain length passing sidings become either impractical or unsightly. Also, yards can become extremely large depending on train length and volume of traffic.
Good lord, 40 car trains? That’s some long trains. I could run 40 cars, but the entire train would wrap around half of one of my mainline loops. Which looks weird. Typically I run about 20-30 cars with 3-4 locos. I have two separate looped mainlines.
But I’m also starting to build my extension room layout, where my staging will be. So maybe I can run longer trains then.
Main layout is 15’ x 12’ and extension room is 9’ x 9’.
this one, in HO, when shot was 3 locos, 42 cars, and a dpu,
I have since add 26 more cars on the way to 119 total full sized train.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzZn83ha2co
here.s an 80 car in N
i try to run trains as long as possible i love to watch long trains run around my layout…HOWEVER…
the longer the train the greater the chance of something going wrong the longer the train the more drag on the cars / locos and if you do not have large curves then there is the chance of the train straight lineing … that meant that the cars will get pulled of the track at the curves or switches another problem with long trains… they do not like plastic couplers…use kd couplers
also depends on what cars you will be pulling… for example 30 x coal cars all the same make will just about go around any layout… however when you start to mix auto racks and 50 ft box cars then the chances of something going wrong will increase and usually does
work out what length your passing tracks are then build your trains to this length
i have enclosed a link to a video that i made recently … it shows a ho scale train of 5800 (scale) foot in length i could not achieve this length without the use of mid train helpers…and dcc…
You might want to reconsider. Another thing to think about is the length of single track between passing sidings. Good rule of thumb is twice the length of the train. So with two 30’ passing sidings and 60’ between, that is 120’ of track just for that.
I wanted a long mainline run and settled on 25 car trains (28 for coal) and it works great for ops sessions. You did not say what you’re going to do with your layout. Sometihng the size you mention needs operators, not just watch trains run around. What type of operations are you planning?
I remember hearing of a 1:4 ratio used were 1 model car is used for every 4 prototype cars. Seeing that 80 car N scale train was a little crazy.
As stated, long trains require perfect track, free rolling cars and Kadee couplers. I operate on a layout housed in a mobile home. The layout is 20+ years old and here in western Colorado subject to major temperature swings. They only heat it when they operate. 3 nights ago it was 8 below zero! 40 plus car length mixed trains are the norm. Modeling the Rio Grande in the 80s, they run lots of car 50 feet and longer. I’m not sure of the ruling grade, but its far from flat. Power is usually 3 to 4 SD units, on the point, mostly rebuilt Athearns. There are seldom any derailments. Since it is all double track main, passing sidings are not a concern.
A few thoughts:
A number of the comments here are based on assumed facts not in evidence:
How long is the mainline run? (we got a hint - it fills his basement)
It the mainline double or single track?
If single track, how long are the sidings? How far are they spaced?
What traffic levels are desired?
What is the era? How long are the cars? (the OP did answer this)
My layout plan includes an eight scale mile double track mainline, so passing siding length or spacing is of no concern. he layout is two decks in an 800 sq foot space.
My layout is designed for trains 1500 scale feet long, or about thirty 40’ cars plus power and cabin.
My era is 1953, VERY FEW cars longer than 50’. Many 34’ hoppers still in use. So coal trains, which were typically longer than manifest freights, will be more like 40-50 cars.
Layouts should be planed with train length as a prime design criteria. My only visable/modeled freight yard is over 20’ long - 8 tracks. Yes its big, so are real freight yards.
I feel my trains are long enough to give a prototype feel for my era. My selective compression ratio is more in the 2:1 or 3:1 range compared to common practices in my modeled era and region. But many do find the 4:1 ratio acceptable.
It is easy for us to read such a question and simply respond based on the choices you have already made for yourself, that may be the other end of the spectrum from the person asking the question.
On some layouts 12 car trains are big, on others 50 car trains are too small.
Sheldon
Mark, this is a good point, but its value depends on the goals of the layout. Some layouts are specificly designed to convey that sense of “going somewhere” while other layouts are designed to simulate the railroad activities of only one or two “places”.
The “place” may be be a big place. For Example one modeler I know is building three levels in a 1400 sq ft basement and only modeling the part of the PRR inside the City of Baltimore! Including a full scale models of Penn Station and the US Post Office next door to it.
The best model railroads are not necessarily ones that try to depict hundreds of miles.
My layout concept focuses on a division point yard/city/terminal and selectively compressed about 20 miles either side of that main yard/terminal. Just far enough out of town for some rural running and “other” scenic and operational features, interchanges, juctions, etc. Kind of like Brunswick Md on the B&O - but freelanced.
In my view, this is a better approach for modeling Class I railroading rather than trying to model two “terminals” and the trackage in between.
Modeling two terminals and trackage in between is beter done with a subjuct like the Ma & Pa or modeling pre 1900.
But What do I know…
Sheldon
One more thought about planning:
I would run even longer trains if I had more space, so, since we are planning a move in a few years I am building the current layout in transportable sections. It is very likley that my next layout space may be even larger.
So, the yard/passenge
Lots of good points made. However, what works for one person doesn’t mean it will work for others.
I have had 5 layouts since my first HO in 1959, which was a board with a circle that slid under my bed while I was in seminary. Since then, my layouts have shared one common theme: single track main with passing tracks, a line that runs between two end points with lots of towns and switching in between, and believable. The last is hard to judge or achieve, and we each have our own interpretation.
My current Santa Fe in Oklahoma in 1989 is in a space 29ft by 33 ft, but is three levels connected by helix, and models specific operations by a specific railroad in a specific time period. It was started in 1984 and is pretty much done. Unit grain trains are the norm. But to achieve what I want required some compromise. One was train length. So grain trains are restricted to 22 cars. The main stretch of secondary mainline between Guthrie OK and Enid OK covered about 45 miles. Only one passing track could accomodate a meet. Lots of grain trains ran as my time frame is the Oklahoma wheat rush, so I fleet the grain trains, just as Santa Fe did, and that one passing track sets the train size. I find the maximum length looks very good, does not overpower the layout and works for me. At a given time during an operating session, as many as 10 grain trains may be moving over parts of the layout.
So, trying to run the longest train in the world may be your goal, and if you want to build your layout around that concept, fine. But remember we each have our own givens and your givens might not be someone elses given.
Bob
Something to keep in mind. In HO scale, a mile is 60.6 feet. If you have a 16 mile short line layout, that is almost 1000 feet of track. How many of us have a layout that size?
At our HO scale club, a couple of us run NYC Pacemaker freights. One fellow has 35 freight cars pulled by a Mohawk. I have 27 freight cars pulled by a F3 and F7 in ABBA mode. Much, to much for even a club layout but it pleases the “child” in us.
Rich
Bob, it is also interesting and should be noted that your 22 car trains of grain hoppers are about the same total length as my 40 car trains of 50 ton coal hoppers.
I don’t think you’re necessarily limited to the number of cars in a train assuming all the cars are weighted to the same standard and your trackwork is adequate. However, the question is where does the train go when you’re done running it. A friend of mine routinely runs 35 car trains with mostly 50 footers. He has several trains with ore jennys (empty and loaded) that go 70 cars. These trains require helpers going up over his big hill.
I think his railroad is probably bigger than what you are proposing, since it is multi-level and contained in a structure that originally measured about 30 by 80 feet, and has had an addition of about half that size. So the trains don’t dwarf the layout. However, he still has the 35 car equivalent limit due to yard and staging track length considerations.
Interesting
Means a 12 car HO would be like a 48 car prototype
I think I remember reading that the minds eye wants to see about a 7 car set up
Of course that could mean up to 10 depending on the rolling stock size
I run small trains on a room-sized layout. Typically, there are 8-10 cars in a train, or 4-5 passenger coaches, pulled by 1 steamer or a pair of late Transition Era diesels. My layout is a loop, with two sets of passing sidings placed so that a pair of trains can loop endlessly and pass each other going in opposite directions.
So, I’d say that the important limitation on my layout is the length of the passing sidings, but it’s also important to consider yard space for making up and breaking down those trains, and how well your curves and grades can accomodate them. Of course, if you need helpers to get over your “mountain division,” so much the better for operational interest.
I like long trains too. I’ve found that a 30 car train (transition era 1950s in my case) is plenty long enough to get the appearance of long trains on my basement sized layout. Yes, I have to have very good, smooth, almost perfect track. I have some 2% grades on helixes and it isn’t a problem but I don’t have any steam locos that can pull those trains. I use Kadees as the plastic ones don’t hold up well on long trains even if you take it easy and don’t have grades like mine. Yes, I do have long sidings. My sidings range from 17 to 20 feet long and I do have some sections of double-track too.
Iain Rice wrote about how long a train needs to be to seem long. Long in being defined as you are not sure as to about how many cars there are without counting.
Rice said that a long train exceeded your vision at both ends at any given time. With normal peripheral vision, the included angle is about 110 degrees. Viewed 3 ft away from the track, a train on straight track on a layout needs to be about 13ft long to exceed our vision at both ends, and therefore appear “long”. This could be anywhere from 36+ HO ore cars to 12 full length passenger cars plus locomotive(s). It’s 24 40ft box cars in HO.
As for me personally, my sidings limit my train length. In an ideal space situation, my long train would be 18 32ft cars plus engine and caboose, or 9ft. That would be what similar prototypes in my modeled region used for typical trains over the coastal mountain grades. The narrow gauge line would have train lengths of about 60% of the standard gauge due to steeper grades, shorter cars, and smaller engines. In reality, I use train lengths of 6ft and 4ft for standard and narrow gauge - 12 cars and 8 cars respectively.
Another consideration - if you do switching moves with long trains (10+ ft) and run at scale speeds, the time to do runarounds or spot cars can get to the tedium level. Spotting a car on a facing point spur with a 12ft siding using 5 scale MPH means a total of at least 5 actual minutes. That’s assuming zero time lost in coupling and uncoupling, throwing turnouts, simulating brake checks, etc.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
…modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it’s always 1900…