I know there is a concurrent Thread here referencing the need of the C&NW 1385 needing a new boiler. I did not want to take it in a different direction Soooo…
Back when the L&N pulled the 4-4-0 General out of the Chattanooga Union Station basement in 1957/58 (?)… She was taken by flatcar to the L&N’s Louisville(Ky) Shops for a modernization and rebuilding.
I think, I remember reading that the 1855 Rogers-built engine was completely gone through, but it was found that the original boiler, built of ‘Russia Iron’ was found to be sound, and not needing replacement (?).
The difference is between the “iron” and the “steel” is the difference between the beginning and the flowering of the industrial revolution - its what makes our modern world work. Today we all take mass produced steel for granted.
Ships, railroad engines, structural bridges were made of iron into the mid 1800s and there was metallurgical limit to what could be done and what could be made with iron. Steel which is an iron alloy could not be produced cheaply and in quantity. Steel the alloy of iron with carbon is a union of two basic elements of chemistry By alloying or mixing carbon and iron a stronger metal than iron is made which is called steel. This alloying of iron can also be done with manganese, chromium, vandium and tungsten and other elements to make a wide variety of alloy steels. It has taken over 100 years of technology to perfect this science but the beginning of mass produced steel heralded the modern industrial age.
The mass production of steel allowed steel ships, steel railroads, and steel bridges. The age of steel gave rise to the modern skyscraper like the Empire State Building and bridges like the George Washington.
In modern America the great railroad age allowed some wonders of construction. After years of travel in the wooden passenger coach the modern marvel of the steel heavyweight railroad car was so appreciated for safety. Massive engine construction was possible and the height of the technology was steel ball and roller bearings, cast steel locomotive frames, alloy steel rods and wheels, with nickel steel boilers all of which were immensely strong.
A Russian Iron boiler sheet was a high technology surface finish iron at the time of the American Civil War but it was surpassed by workable bendable and rustable steel. The Russian Iron was a decorative product often used for boiler jacketing over felt, wood or asestos insulation because of its glossy blue color and rust
It’s interesting, Eries K1 Pacific locomotives and some others had Russia Iron boiler jackets well into the 20th Century. Color photographs of the K1’s in commuter service tend to show kind of a sky-blue finish, but that could have been due to the way the light was reflected. I’ve done some on-line research on Russia Iron myself and no two sites seem to agree as to what the actual color of the same was.
It’s a pity none of those K1’s were saved, they were good-looking machines.
As a new H.S. graduate, and active model railroader ( at that time) I was really impressed with “The General” ! Then, having the opportunity to be a docent( in the #665 Jim Crow Coach- Baggage Room exhibition) while it was in Memphis for the Cotton Carnival ('62). Afterward, being able to ride behind it as it made a loop around the City. was an added treat. I was really impressed at the time of the extent to which this old ‘American’ had been upgraded for the ‘TOUR’ it was on before going back into a display. Some of those conversations, at that time, were about how well the actual locomotive’s structure had stood the ravages of time ( It was turned out in 1855/56) by Rogers in NJ. The discussions, as I remeber always seemed to gravitate around the descriptor of the Russia(n) Iron of the boiler, Never metioning the the Russia Iron was a decorative wrap of the actual boiler.
You were right about the quality of boilers built for riverboats back in the pre-, and post- Civil War times. The explosion(and its great loss of life) of the ‘Sultana’ just north of Memphis, in the aftermath of the Civil War; is still comemorated in Memphis, with Tom Lee Park, on the riverfront.
Based on everything I’ve read the actual color of Russian Iron is known. The following link describes the research. What I can’t reference is the picture of an actual piece of the material. I thought I had kept the reference link when I copy/pasted the picture to my own reference files but apparently not.
I have seen photographs of Russia Iron, but have been unable to find them again. BUt within the above linked site there are a couple of verbal descriptions of the’look’ of Russia Iron.
FTL:[snip]"…"A particular kind of sheet-iron is manufactured in Russia, which, so far as I know, has not been produced elsewhere. It is remarkable for its smooth, glossy surface, which is metallic gray, and not bluish gray, like that of common sheet-iron. On bending it backwards and forwards with the fingers no scale is separated, as is the case with sheet-iron manufactured in the ordinary way by rolling; but on folding it closely, as though it were paper, and unfolding
I’ve heard of Russia iron but I have a question. I’ve heard of metal being “Japanned”- something to do with the metal or the paint of Model T Fords. Anybody know what Japanned metal is?
Did the use the actual locomotive “The General” in Buster Keaton’s legendary movie?
A “Japanned” finish refers to a black laquer finish, and I believe the term goes as far back as the 17th Century, Europeans crediting the Japanese as being the first to come up with the process, although the process did originate in Asia. In those days it would have been seen on various items such as furniture and metal products. A very tough rot and corrosion-resistant finish it was quite the rage among the European upper classes for a time. Eventually “japanning” became a generic term for any black laquer finish, whether it came from Asia or not.
Ford chose the black laquer finish for the Model T’s because it dried quickly and kept the production costs down. There was the saying “Any color you want, so long as it’s black!” but that’s a bit of an exaggeration, you could custom order a T in other colors at an extra cost.
And no, the actual “General” wasn’t used in Buster Keaton’s movie. Buster used the line and equipment of a West Coast logging 'road that was about to be abandoned and scrapped. Makes my blood run cold to see that old 4-4-0 being wrecked but back then no-one cared, it was just so much junk.
One other thing about Russia Iron, how it was made seems to be a topic for speculation, the Russians never said how they did it. Smart.
Model Railroader once printed an article that said that Volkswagon’s “Polar Silver” paint was a decent match for Russia Iron.
I seem to recall reading that The General was considered both for the Keaton and the Disney movies, and may even have been steamed up for review for use by Keaton but it was decided it was too fragile for the kind of use they anticipated in the film.
Firelok, thanks for that. I loved that movie and everthing else Buster made. In the film “Seven Chances” there are scenes of Los Angeles streetcars, trains, a railroad crane and such. A classic! Not to get off topic…
If you want to see an example of Japanned finish go over to the Classic Toy Trains forum on this site and look up the thread Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation and go to page 6 of the thread. About halfway down the page is a post on Flyer’s #1084 locomotive. The pictured engine is Japanned black finish.
Its pretty hard to find “sheet iron” to work with today. I have in my outboard motor collecton a Johnson “Giant Twin” racing motor from 1928. This monster is the largest opposed twin cylinder internal combustion engine ever built. The spark plugs are 3 feet apart and the pistons fire at eachother. Its an opposed twin design.
Johnson was the premere outboard boat motor builder of the 1920’s and 30’s. Sadly they were taken down by the Great Depression in their prime. Outboard Marine Corporation picked up the brand in 1933 but the great days of engine building were gone.
At any rate there are like 13 of these Johnson “Giant Twin” engines left in existance. The one I restored had of all things a huge aluminum and stainless iron muffler. Thats right 1928 “stainless iron.” The stuff was tough and hard and iron! Not like any steel you might be familiar with.
Eventually, I got Outboard Marine Corporation - aka - Evenrude, Johnson - to send me original blueprints from their engineering files so that I could restore this engine. The original blueprints were drawn up in 1926-1927 by Louis Johnson one of the original founders of Johnson Motor Company.
The sheet iron was an alloy called “Ascalloy Stainless Iron.” I took a trip to Factory Steel And Metal in Detroit, which is an industrial concern which buys up all sorts of left over runs of metal from various industrial manufacturers. This is a Jewish company which had a nitch market in the Detroit industrial setting - you could go down there and get a small piece or a run of many alloys of steel, iron, copper, bronze, aluminum. Cool place.
Anyway, Asclloy Stainless Iron was sill a manufactured product TODAY only available in bar stock! Wow! What the hell would anyone do with this today? I don’t know but it was not avilable in sheets. I had to rework the
NEVER underestimate the knowledge and sophistication of the old-timers and their ability to work with what they had. From my studies of history let me tell you, they’ll surprise you every time.
Keaton had asked for permission to use the General and received it. However, the railroad withdrew from the agreement under pressure from veteran’s organizations once it was learned that Keaton’s movie was to be a comedy.
As for the Russia Iron, the manufacturing of it has become a lost art. As mentioned previously, we have an idea as to what the finished product should look like, but precious little information on how to produce the metal.
I can see how copper in the flues would increase heat transfer, and of course copper doesn’t rust, but i’m not sure how it would prevent lime (scale?) build up.
Stephenson designed the ROCKET in 1829. This first modern locomotive “low boiler pressure” design used copper boiler flues.
Copper was also used for locomotive firebox construction but was a highly expensive material to use in bulk for this purpose.
Russian Iron was the decorative sheet iron used for the outer skin of Civil War era locomotives. It was hard, had a natural blue color, and would not dent or damage easily. Under the decorative sheet Russian Iron was a regular old rolled iron locomotive boiler - by modern standards dangerous under high pressure owing to the brittle nature of iron as well as the expansion and contraction created under stress and temperature fluctuation.
One of the best known early engineering textbooks on railroad locomotive design was, Catechism of the Locomotive by Matthias Forney, Mechanical Engineer published by The Railroad Gazette, 73 Broadway, New York in 1880.
Robert Forney writes about designing iron boilers in 1880, saying,
"There is great variation in the tensile strength of rolled iron boiler plate, but that of good plate will average about 50,000 pounds per square inch, if the strain is applied in the direction of the ‘grain’ or the fibers of the iron and about 10% less if the strain is applied across the grain…At the same time the character of the metal will be altered by the repeated application of strains greater than its elastic limit, and it will become brittle and less able to resist a sudden strain, and will ultimately break short off…This limit of the iron boiler plates may be taken at about 1/5th its breaking, or, as it is called ultimate strength. It should be remembered, however, in this connection, that it often happens that the steam pressure is not the greatest force the boiler must withstand, as sudden or unequal expansion and contraction are probably
The copper in the German flues is an alloying agent. I think the idea is to provide the same sort of resistance to corrosion in the gas path as a Cor-Ten steel does to weather. There’s usually enough sulfur in the combustion gas to make it work – unlike that building at Cornell that just rusted and rusted in the relatively clean air.
Russian iron is thin, planished sheet metal. It would never be used for pressure work, only for jacketing. If I remember correctly, it has the advantage of being resistant to corrosion under many environmental conditions (both on the outside and on the side in contact with lagging material) without needing good painting. Most cost-effective grades of thin sheet steel are not like that!
Dr D, I was involved with the construction of several municipal recreation centers with large swimming pools and we had stainless steel filter housings. These were pressure vessels made of 316 Stainless with 316 SS mesh elements inside which most everyone thinks does not corrode. Well, in fairly short order, we started getting corrosion and eventually pinhole perforations in the housings. Long story short and a lot of dollars and expert consultants later, in the process, I learned that there are a lot of types of “stainless steel”. There are alloys from 100 series all the way through the 900 series, high carbon and low carbon and many contain no steel at all. In the process of making the shells, they are rolled and then the joints are welded but in the process of welding, it slightly changed the carbon content of that area of the metal and that it in effect, set up a galvanic reaction. We had to replace some with 304L (low carbon) shells and had the interior surfaces passivated which is a treatment to make then less corrodable. What was also happening was that when we shocked the pool with chlorine, that would cause a slight corrosion also but the 304L was less suceptable to it. I think some were later changed to big fiberglass housings. The big natatoriums housing the indoor pools also had 316 SS ductwork and that got holes eaten through it and blew rust flakes out onto the pool deck, they were also eventually replaced with big fiberglass ductwork.
The folks at the WW&F Ry in Alna, Me are thrying something with Iron to replicate the Russia Iron. We have sheets of I ron that are being polished, cut to the template, blued and then applied to the boiler. This should look outstanding when finished