My neighbor died of cancer last summer. His wife asked me to finish his layout for her grandkids. I’m doing that. His layout is in s gauge. My layout is HO. Is there a site where I can use as reference for all related items, etc for s gauge? He has purchased several cars, locomotives, etc plus the two rail track. He didn’t leave a drawing of his track layout, but figured it out so am in the process of laying track. He has also bought several items for controlling his locos. American Models SDK transformer, Lionel Legacy #990 control system, Lionel Transmitter Command Set 6-12969, for example. I’m assuming that this will be DCC but need to know before getting to the wiring part. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Welcome to the forums.
Sorry to hear of the loss of your neighbor. Nice of you to help out so the grandkids can enjoy grandpa’s trains.
Go to the top right of this page, light gray line, click on Trains.com, then Classic Toy Trains. The folks over there are more into S and O gauge, though many of us here started there, my guess is they are more up to date.
Good luck,
Richard
Unfortunately due to it’s association with 1940’s and 50’s tinplate trains, S - scale tends to be consigned to the “toy train” category. This despite the fact that there are a number of manufacturers who produce true scale model trains in S-scale these days.
As for the CTT forum; while it is true there are S-scale and Flyer enthusiasts who post there, said forum as the publication, is mainly dominated by the three-rail crowd.
Your best bet is to investigate the several Facebook groups that focus exclusively on S-scale modeling:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/11332432410/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/shelper.americanmodels1.64th/
I second the idea of posting on the CTT forum.
From your description, it sounds like his trains are all S hirail (American Flyer and compatibles). Lionel Legacy is a command control system. It is like but not compatible with DCC. Recent locomotives with the Legacy CAB-2 locomotive decoder are said to have a DCC compatible mode. Lionel Transmitter Command Set 6-12969 is Lionel’s older command control system, locomotives from it should work with Legacy. Non decoder equipped locomotives, which you probably also have since you have an old American Models SDK transformer, may require an AC power pack as I don’t know if Legacy can run them - it won’t run them individually like the decoder equipped ones.
Good luck
Paul
The Lionel 6-12969 is a TRAIN MASTER COMMAND CONTROL set (Not transmitter)
TMCC was Lionel’s First generation Command Control, the #990 Legacy set is the second generation Lionel command control system, it is fully backwards compatable, and can be linked with the 6-12969 system.
The Legacy system has more features than the 1st gen TMCC, and will control any TMCC locomotive or other TMCC equipped equipment. The 1st gen TMCC system will also control any Legacy unit, but there may(Likely will) be features, that the TMCC system can not operate, but all basic functions should be available.
I don’t believe that TMCC/Legacy has any ability to control or respond to any DCC signals. MTH’s Digital Command System (DCS) does have some DCC cabability at the Proto Sound 3 (PS3) generation.
If it is TMCC/Legacy equipped it is much more likely to be more scale like than post war American Flyer equipment, but will likely have Flyer style knuckle couplers.
Doug
Hi dschultz,
Challenger3 is correct about the Lionel control systems. Lionel has been using their TMCC and Legacy command control systems in American Flyer engines since the late 90’s. Check the locomotives your neighbor purchased. The the box label mentions TMCC, Legacy, Odessey, Odessey II, or RailSounds, you’ll want to power the layout with an AC transformer. The American Models transformer should serve just fine. Hook up the Legacy #990 control system and you should be able to get up and running pretty quick.
Unless there are other engines from American Models, S-Helper, etc., you probably won’t be needing a DCC system. DCC uses the same command codes as Lionel’s original TMCC system and most layout control software designed for DCC can also connect to TMCC and Legacy command bases. However, TMCC and Legacy use an entirely different technology from DCC to communicate the commands to the locomotives. The two systems are not electrically compatible and thus cannot co-exisist on the same track at the same time. TMCC/Legacy require an AC power supply functioning at either 50 or 60 Hz to transmit commands.
If you have any other questions or want to check on what exactly you’re working with, feel free to post here.
Lionel’s most recent production run of American Flyer locomotives have come with RailSounds decoders that are compatible with both TMCC/Legacy and DCC. However, these have only come out recently, so it is likely that the engines are TMCC/Legacy only.
Thanks for the replies. I will look at the box labels and go from there.
S Scale Resource Magazine - Free on line magazine downloadable pdf
I checked the locos he had purchased and I don’t see any mention of TMCC, Legacy, etc as you mentioned, on the box. It says ready to run and they were bought from S-Helper Service Inc in New Brunswick, NJ. Best I can tell from copies/notes I could find is that he purchased these in 2009 and 2010.
On the back of the box it lists, among other things, that the loco has a plug in AC/DC sequence reversing unit, 5 pole DC Can motor, NMRA DCC socket with DC shorting plug. It says that this diesel, right out of the box, will run on any layout with AF compatible track, a standard transformer, rectifier, and speed control. In the operating manual it says the loco will run on AF compatible S gauge track with either AC or DC power.
So, I’m assuming that he at some point intended to convert these locos to DCC (we had several conversation about the new DCC and converting to those) but didn’t purchase them with decoders already in them.
I’m assuming that I should wire his layout as if it weren’t for DCC since none of his locos have any decoders in them. Since it’s not likely that any of his two sons, who by the way have said they don’t have the want or expertise to finish it, will ever change the system to DCC. I’m also concerned that once I get this finished and ready to operate, both the sons and grandsons will lose interest over time.
My plan then is to get this layout functional and then leave it up to the family what they do with it. If it weren’t for his wife asking me to do this, I probably wouldn’t intervene and concentrate on upgrading and finishing my layout. I never got the time the past 20 years to finish my layout. It’s HO and operational but never got any scenery done. So, with all the new technology I’m converting to DCC.
Thanks.
S Helper diesels came with HiRail wheels installed and AF couplers, but scale wheels were included in the box. An AC board came plugged in and a DC shorting plug weas included in the box so one could change to DC operation. One could also plug in a decoder which was bought separately. Later models were available that could optionally be ordered set up for DCC with or without sound. There was also a locomotion option that I have never had - IIRC it added sound to the AC operation.
The S Helper steam locomotive (2-8-0) had to be ordered with HiRail or Scale wheels. It also could be had AC, DC, DCC with/without sound, but I believe it didn’t come with extra parts to change between the 3.
Enjoy
Paul