Howdy folks. I am in the process of trying to pin down some of the passenger service that came into Phoenix during the 50’s. Santa Fe was a big one, and got them pretty well figured out…but I am drawing a blank on Southern Pacific.
What kind of headend of power would they have used for passenger service, say 1956 (50’s is close enough) What types and schemes… Any info would be great. Thanks guys
[:D]
You might try the link below.
E-7’s and E-9’s in Daylight scheme (Sunset Limited and Golden State). F-7, FP-7 for secondary trains, painted in Black Widow. The PA’s were generally not used east of LA as they were used more on lines with heavy grades.
Andre
None of the video tapes or DVDs I have even mention SP passenger trains into Phoenix. I think the Sunset fleet ran only within California. The Golden State was a joint venture of the Rock Island and SP, so it would have taken one of the transcontinental routes across the Rockies. If SP passenger service existed into Phoenix, it would have been a secondary route.
PAs were definately used east of LA. I have pics of the Sunset headed up by PAs in San Antonio at the wash rack. I am modeling the late 50s Sunset and using Daylight PAs as power .
The Golden State and the Sunset Limited, as well as the Texan (if I am remembering correctly) came across through Tucson, and across towars El Paso. At the time, I think the mainline went through (or near) Phoenix, so it was on the route. Some googling might fill in some blanks. My understanding from what I have read is that from the mid fifties, the Daylight scheme was used on most of the SPs passenger locos. The Golden State locos were repainted into that that scheme at that time. There is a pic of one in a hybrid scheme somewhere, google away!
Yeah, that was on the T&NO.
Andre
You got it!! I have seen several pics of Southern Pacific PAs in use on passenger trains through Texas. I always thought that those Budd cars headed up by Daylight PAs made for an awesome train. It was a shame when they were repainted in the “bloody nose” scheme. I never cared for the Fs on the point though (as well as the geeps and so forth in the later years). I am from the San Antonio area and sure missed the Espee once it was gone. That is a whole other thread though.
The Sunset Limited and Golden State trains went through Phoenix. There was also a seconday mail-rider coach train called THE ARGONAUT, on the LA-Tucumcari run, but I don’t know whether it ran through Phoenix, or took the more southerly route to Tucson. I rode the Sunset between San Antonio and LA back in the early 'sixties, and if I remember correctly, the power was PA’s, though by that time they were painted in SP ‘Bloody Nose’.
Generaly speaking, the diesels that pulled the Sunset were decorated in SP “Daylight” colors, while the Golden State diesels were painted in a red-silver scheme that matched the Golden State cars.
If you can get hold of of a copy of Lucius Beebe’s THE CENTRAL PACIFIC AND THE SOUTHERN PACIFIC, there are quite a few photographs of passenger trains in Arizona around the mid-fifties. I don’t know if the book is in print, however. Possibly a library in Phoenix might have a copy.
Tom
Don’t know if it’s in print either, but there are a number of passenger train shots in AZ and CA.
Then there’s such little SP idiosyncrasies as an A-6 4-4-2 in freight helper service and an M-6 Mogul in San Timeteo Canyon on the point what appears to be a rather heavy freight (IIRC, there’s a couple of cab-forwards cut in towards the rear of the train).
Andre
Wow! Thanks guys. All of your info is a great help. You have given me enough info to start diggin… and shoppin.
I admit, I run my layout pretty loose with the “prototype” operations, but I still would like to keep it close. This gives me enough to run with some ideas I had. Again, thanks everyone.
The SP’s first solo foray into psgr diesels was to order 5 sets of 3 units each (in ABB configuration) the first 3 of which were painted in red and silver “Golden State” colors. The other 2 sets were delivered in DAYLIGHT. It became apparent early on that the great avaiability of the new units and the layover time for the Golden State in LA would permit their use on some Coast Line trains. I’ve seen pix of the red and silver units on the Noon Dayligh and tha Lark. To facilitate their use in a common pool it was decided to paint all 5 sets in Daylight. There,s a pic of one set that was pressed into service before being fully painted and having a Dalight nose and Golden State side panels. Only on the SP! The red and silver was, therefor, a very short-lived scheme (which didn’t keep me from using it on my Golden State)
The S.P. also had the Imperial (train nos. 39/40) inaugerated on Oct.10, 1946 with service from L.A. to Chicago that included a Phoenix stop. It started out as a “full-service” (coaches-diner-Pullmans), but secondary, passenger train. In 1949 it inherited a lot of mail/express after trains 47/48 were discontinued. By October 1957, the Argonaut was combined with the Imperial between El Paso and L.A. By the end of the 1950s, the Imperial became a pure mail/express train except for a rider coach. The train was discontinued in August 1967.
Mark Pierce
Mark: The IMPERIAL must have been the train I took from LA to Tucumcari when I was transferred to Amarillo AFB in 1963. Caught a Rock Island connector through to Amarillo. Always thought it was the ARGONAUT–thanks for the correction. You’re right, one rider coach, at the rear end of about 16 or so mail and express cars, and if I remember correctly, the coach was taken off at Tucumcari and joined to the Rock Island train across the Texas Panhandle (can’t remember transferring, but it was a long time ago). I think it was pulled by SP F’s from LA to Tucumcari, but since it was largely a night train, I never got a good look at the motive power.
Wow, thanks for the memories, LOL!
Tom