Safe protection against fire

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

Am running a N scale layout with Digitrax components and Kato track on a blue foam base. My command station is a (DCS240) and I have short circuit protection via several PM42’s. However, I know that murphy is always lurking nearby and I am concerned if I have some major failure that leads to an overheated situation on my layout such that I do not notice it right away.

I checked on flammability of blue foam (my situation) and reports imply that an electrical fire will melt the foam but not trigger a fire. For my safety sake, I am going to assume that a fire can be triggered by an electrical hot spot. Other than killing the power, what type of fire extinguisher would be appropriate to keep handy around a layout?

Also, in my checking, I noted that bare foam such as used in layouts is not allowed by most building codes. Must be covered by some flame retardant material such as sheetrock. My layout is not in my home so I am not violating code but I will bet that more than a few people here would not want the fire inspector to visit their layout.

2

Halon*: (Halotron)

https://amerexfireextinguishers.com/collections/halon-1211

From people I know in the electronics and computer fields, halon* is the recommended type.

*Or its “clean agent” recommended derivatives.

Good Luck, Ed

3

Well, if your really worried about it, get the halon extinguisher that Ed links to.

Good greif, there have been many threads on here about the dangerous, life threatening chemicals that some use for track cleaning, etc.

So now, those of us that have used ridgid foam for our base, should now loose sleep over worrying about a sudden catastrophic fire.

[*-)] [%-)]

Then I would say, use something else, that you feel safe with, for your layout.

So what would a “fire inspector” have to say about what’s in YOUR garage, and basement, besides your layout with foam ?

Mike.

EDIT: And, if your truly worried about it, what happens if your not there? OMG. Get a halon fire extingusher system installed.

4

The foam in a layout is different then if on the wall. Same foam, different use, different codes or none at all. Walls and upright things are easier to start on fire and will burn faster and hotter then foam layed down.

5

Oh dear God people, you’re going to use Halon for basement layouts? Better get the old will up to date; fire a Halon system off in a confined space and you will lose consciousness and asphyxiate before you can think about feeling strange. That probably applies even to handheld systems of sufficient capacity.

Situation a bit different if you can arm the system to actuate only when no one is in the basement or otherwise in a place where they might be suffocated by heavier-than-air vapors blanketing them. But be VERY sure you can’t be surprised in any reasonably foreseeable circumstance.

There may be caveats to using some kinds of dry chemical extinguishing in confined spaces with low assured ventilation. Do the research before implementing any ‘technology’.

6

I also think it would have to be an airtight room, that the system is in. And if your in that room when it goes off, good night.

Mike.

7

And don’t forget your hard hat for when the sky falls

8

Uhh, has anyone considered having a MAIN SWITCH that cuts all power to the layout and it’s associated power draws, when you’re not there cut the power ergo no fire risk as to if you’re there and a fire happens is there a respirator that would filter the halon? (Edit: you would need an actual oxygen tank not a respirator, think of halon like water you put water in an empty bucket it displaces the air same with halon so a respirator doesn’t work underwater or in halon.) Otherwise may I suggest a fire blanket? Use it to smother the flames?

9

A Co2 extinguisher is a better bet because you’ll know to get out of there because you’ll start choking and yawning but for maximum safety I’d use a blanket or a CO2 bomb for fire extinguishing, in the event of fire toss it towards the fire and run!

10

Yes, do not use Halon in an habitable enclosed area. The fire may go out, and your house not burn down, but you will be dead anyway. Since there are so many varied materials in most layouts, an ABC type extinguisher is the best option.

Many years ago there was a web site wher ethey did variou burn tests of blue and pink foam. A hot soldering iron for example, cause the foam to melt back until the space around the heat source was enough that the edges were no longer above the melting point of the foam. They tried setting it on fire and failed in most any way tried. Even exposing the foam to the flame of a torch just metled a big hole in it. I no longer have a link to it, or even know if the site still exists, but whem foam first got popular (probably 5 years or so after the MR articles by Bill Darnaby) there were almost as many posts here about how the foam will burn up and kill you are there are hobby is dying posts. Especially after seeing the results of experiments from that site, the foam on my layout catching fire was the least of my worries.

Plus I do use a master power switch. NOTHING in the layout room stays powered up when no one is there. There are some people who constantly leave their DCC system turned on - I have no idea why you would do this. Shut everything off when you leave and the only worry you will have is the same as any other home wiring - in other words, there’s no greater likelihood of the layout catching fire as any other place in your home.

ANd have smoke detectors. That are tested known working.

–Randy

11

I have 3 60lb extinquishers. One by the door Where the master power switches are. One by the spray booth. And one in the far corner where the trip out is the longest. the layout has its own building. And the electrical i wired through a set of master switches so theree is no power past that point when not there. There is the breakers in the garage and a second master kill switch in the house. It does both the garage and railroad building

12

A A,B,C Co2 fire extinguisher will handle any type of fire.

Don’t go cheap,be sure to buy the ones with the gauge so you can monitor the pressure and have it refilled as needed.

As far as Halon…Remember this warning sign:

Halon=halo In the event of fire leave the room immediately!

BTW…Aim the extinguisher towards the bottom of the flames.

13

I have used Co2 extinuishers without any issues…Don’t know where you got your information from.

14

I have a master switch, so nothing is on when I’m not in the room. It’s just a power strip, but the on/off switch lights up in red when it’s on. You can’t miss it when you turn off the overhead lighting, as I leave the room.

Mike.

15

I think you were thinking about scaletree.com. I found that site when i was checking out the subject. They basically concluded that blue/pink foam would burn but not on its own. You need to keep applying flame to burn it. Remove the flame and it would self extinguish.

Not meaning to poke anyone in the eye. I was unaware of the earlier discussion topics on the subject. My layout is NOT in my house. It is in a trailer in back yard of a rural unincorporated area with no building codes. Killing the power and smothering with a blanket may be my best approach unless the wooden structure somehow starts burning.

16

CO2 is not so good on class A fires.

All fire extinguishers discharge at high power and will blow most of your scenery away.

No household extinguisher will work on class D or Class E fires, but then it is not likely that you will have any of these materials in your trainroom. Same gaurantee not offered on the realroads.

ROAR

17

I wired AC circuits into the benchwork which splits into 3 circuits feeding power strips. Master power switch with indicator light built into benchwork readily visible when leaving the room and I always turn it off. Fire extinguisher kept on first floor in the garage. FYI…Anyone with a Kidde fire extinguisher…there is a recall and free replacement. I had 2 unit’s replaced in December 2017. I had the original units for decades going back into the seventies. Google Kidde recall and see if your units are eligible as this effected millions of units due to mechanical failure to spray. They come Fedex with return label for your convenience. Pay particular attention to those soldering irons and stay safe. The conversation here has got me thinking about smoke detectors downstairs in garage.

18

For a typical electrical fire, I would pull the plug (or breaker) and use an ABC rated fire extinguisher. They are effective for electrical fires and typically use a dry chemical (Sodium Bicarbonate) which releases CO2 smoothering the fire and denying it oxygen.

As soon as the fire is out, evacuate. That foam releases toxic gas which is why it’s against code.

Halon would work, but halon is used in the most extreme conditions where you are worried about electronics. And Halon will fill the air with non-breathable air. Halon is typically reserved for specialty fires like computer server rooms.

19

As far as foam goes, for the most part the stuff just melts. I used beaded foam for my last layout and tried to set it on fire. Tried direct electricl shorts, souldering irons and burnning matches of which only the burning match cought the foam on fire in the least bit and even then it went out as soon as the wood burned and never burned outside the area burning on the match (remember this is the most flamable of the foams.

20

I’ve been a firefighter for almost 14 years now, with a background in Fire Protection Engineering, building code and life safety system compliance. Hated the FPE field as a career so I tried working in radio communications (RF / Public Safety two way radio), tried the railroad thing until I got furloughed, ran a tow company for five more years, and now I just make saw blades for a small manufacturer because it’s easy.

You need to find an appropriately rated Type ABC extinguisher for your layout space. What do I mean by rated? Look at the type of materials you have “finished”, “stored”, and “near by” that you’re going to attempt to protect with an extinguisher.

The “A” rating covers ordinary combustibles. The wood, paper, masking tape, most of the “building” type materials on your layout. The foam falls into the “A” rating in it’s normal state, but if it startes to melt to liquid (such as when exposed to heat and certain chemicals) it falls into the “B” category.

If you’re storing lots of paints, paint thinner, other flammable chemicals, and other things under your layout for model building, that’s the “B” rating on the extinguisher.

The “C” Rating covers your CHARGED Electrical. Take power away and those electrical items are now “A” items.

Please, please, PLEASE do not attempt to find “HALON” anything for use in your home. Halotron is it’s replacement, although much more costly than say your standard ABC Dry-Chemical type extinguisher.

[quote user=“NWP SWP”]

Uhh, has anyone considered having a MAIN SWITCH that cuts all power to the layout and it’s associated power draws, when you’re not there cut the power ergo no fire risk as to if you’re there and a fire happens is there a respirat