I know that all of the class 1 railroads want to and re runninglonger and heavier trains to make operation more ecomomical, and I applaud them for that. BUT the only way that I can see to running trains safely through the Kicking Horse Pass is to run trains at reduced speedsand with less trailing tonnage between Stephen and Field.
Cakdreaner
Jumping to conclusions much?
Is that what your little critters are doing?
The train that ran away was only 112 cars. That’s not a large train by today’s standards.
I remember that one article in Trains about 1972ish. 9900 tons, or something like that. I believe it was also dealing more with manifest rather than unit bulk trains. 9900 tons on a manifest isn’t unusual today. Just like we used to think trains over 9000 feet were long. Now that doesn’t cause one to bat an eye when some trains normal lengths are 13 to 15K feet. My how perceptions change.
Jeff
It is true that 9900 tons is not a heavy train by todays standards, but with the spiral tunnels and steep grade, perhaps a maximum of 9000 trailing tons at 20 MPH or less might be a good idea especially in bad weather. Alo considering that this is not the first runaway over Kicking Horse Pass.
Caldreamer
They are investigating the effects of gravity. No conclusions are being drawn.
I miss the canyon one.
Don’t know what the TTSI and/or Train Handling Instructions are in effect for this territory.
In the territories I am familiar with - Maximum speeds for trains descending ‘mountain grades’ is 15 MPH and in some cases 12 MPH. Additionally TTSI specify specific timings are specified between specific locations - trains operating between the points in a shorter amount of time than specified must stop their trains and be governed by additional instructions.
NTSB in their testing done in concert with a 2000 derailment of a coal train that ran away determined that with 286K loads - 15 MPH was the MAXIMUM speed that air brakes alone could control the train on the grades - above 15 MPH the brakes faded to ineffectiveness account increasing heat.
Railroads must operate with the geographical challenges they encounter and develop strategies to safely operate trains through the geography - no matter what the geography is. Operations that work where the maximium grade is 0.3% don’t cut it where grades are 1% to 2% or more.
Balt, check these guys out…
I have seen that elsewhere - mesmerizing!
So the train is standing on the grade with an emergency application holding it and no hand brakes set. What exactly do you do to begin moving the train to continue down the grade?
Can you recharge the reservoirs fully without causing the emergency application to release at some point in the recharging process?
If not: how do you know the brakes will not release before there is enough reservoir pressure to make a strong enough application to control the train once the train begins moving?
Is it possible to fully recharge the reservoirs without having any release of brakes due to the recharging?
You start securing the train - hand brake by hand brake until enough hand brakes have been appled to hold the train - then you release the air brakes - pumping off the emergency application and bringing the train line up to the pressure specified for the train - then you have enough air pressure to make service application(s) as necessary to control the train as the hand brakes are released.
You maintain control of the train at all times.
You don’t get on the train and release the air brakes with no other actions being taken.
Yes I understand that procedure, but I am asking what is done when there is no requirement to secrure the train with handbrakes, as w
You tie handbrakes on first.
[quote user=“Euclid”]
BaltACD
Euclid
So the train is standing on the grade with an emergency application holding it and no hand brakes set. What exactly do you do to begin moving the train to continue down the grade?Can you recharge the reservoirs fully without causing the emergency application to release at some point in the recharging process?
If not: how do you know the brakes will not release before there is enough reservoir pressure to make a strong enough application to control the train once the train begins moving?
Is it possible to fully recharge the reservoirs without having any release of brakes due to the recharging?
You start securing the train - hand brake by hand brake until enough hand brakes have been appled to hold the train - then you release the air brakes - pumping off the emergency application and bringing the train line up to the pressure specified for the train - then you have enough air pressure to make service application(s) as necessary to control the train as the hand brakes are released.
You maintain control of the train at all times.
You don’t get on the train and release the air brakes with no other actions being taken.
Yes I understand that procedure, but I am asking what is done when the
What I am wondering about has nothing to do with whether or not the use of handbrakes is a good practice. What I am wondering about is how a practice that is essntial on one railroad with steep grades is not essential on another railroad with steep grades. Does gravity work differently in Canada?
If they had an existing rule to secure the train with handbrakes while it stopped on the grade; and if they went ahead and did that; why was it necessary for the government to impose a new rule to set handbrakes? Why the need for a new rule requiring something that is already required???
Something, something, liability? Something, something, gov’t wants to look like it’s doing something?
I don’t know.
Seems to me it was essential to both.
NOT QUALIFIED applies to Keith Creel’s abiltiy to railroad in the mountains. The laws of physics cannot be ‘dismissed’ without severe penalty.