First, thanks to fellow forum member Brad (twcenterprises) for taking the time and trouble to come over to my mother’s house to help me build the cardboard skeleton of the mountain on my son’s layout. I appreciate Brad’s help and will never forget it.
Brad and I put the first layer of plaster cloth on after we finished getting the cardboard strips together, and the next day I put a second layer of plaster cloth over the first. (I didn’t have enough plaster cloth to put on two layers at once.)
And a day or two after putting on the second layer of plaster cloth my wife and I slathered on a really thick layer of Sculptamold. We put on more than a dozen Hydrocal-based rocks but due to the texture of the Sculptamold we can hardly see the rocks.
My best guess is that I should stick to the plan of painting the non-rock areas an earth color and painting the rocks to look like rocks. Then I’d put clump foliage, lichen, and ground foam over parts of the mountain.
But what do you think I should do?
If I had it to do over again, I would opt for wood and screen wire for the skeleton of the mountain because the cardboard strips gave in to the weight as we were putting on the Sculptamold. We stuck a dowel under the mountain and that seemed to prop things up well enough for the Sculptamold to dry. The mountain was rigid when we started applying the Sculptamold, but soon the plaster cloth got wet and the whole structure became wobbly and unwieldy. Having a sturdier skeleton would have been a help in our situation.
I don’t have a single straight pillar to stick any portals on to, so what I
When you make your under-structure over which you intend to use a smeared or gooped product or compound, as I do, you must support the strips, lattice, or screen below by jamming soft items behind them that will help to keep them from sagging. In my case, I use grocery bags with crumpled newspaper, bubble wrap, or even towels. Jam them under there so that the weight of the goop will only cause the screen/lattice to sag a little.
Don’t be afraid, as well, to fashion pillars or risers under the wider spans. I use discarded lengths of 1X2, stood on end and glued to the surface below the wire/lattice. I measure and place them so that they act as pillars whose tops are cut to the correct angle and to which the screen/lattice is hot-glued.
At some point, you will know you have lots of support and can slather on the goop/compound as you need to. Also, don’t be skimpy. Make it thick enough that it wants to support itself between firm supporting structure.
I feel you should probably take this as a learning experience and, as Mike Holmes would say, …
If you have any of that stiff white foam used for packaging, it makes excellent supports - light and non-reactive to water. A dab of latex caulk will hold it to the table surface, and a longish nail stuck through the cardboard, screen or whatever will hold that in place.
Idea brought on by the recent receipt of some frozen goodies in a thick foam container, and unpacking a recently-purchased computer.
I wouldn’t start over just yet, although your willingness to do so is a credit to your judgement (and aptitude for the hobby). I would go ahead and paint it, at least, because it may turn out better than you expect. Once there is some contrast between the rocks and the rest of the terrain, rather than contrasting shades of white, you may change your mind.
Two pointers, though. Sculptamold is my medium of choice for terrain details. Firstly, I only lay it about 1/8" to 1/4" thick. Secondly, if it looks like cottage cheese going on, you haven’t used enough water in mixing it up. You should be able to get it to a fairly smooth texture by adding plenty of water and mixing thoroughly.
But your plan to put the tunnel portal in place and fill the gaps with Sculptamold will work well. I do it all the time.
Thanks a bunch for your replies. It’s humbling when someone who has your decades of experience takes time to help someone who doesn’t have half a clue what he’s doing.
My mother has some scrap pieces of lumber in her garage. I think I’ll paint one of the longer pieces flat black, cut those to the heights required, and then stick those under this mountain for support. I don’t know how it’s holding up as well as it is. I guess it’s the extra cardboard supports Brad (twcenterprises) hot glued to some of the outer pieces is helping it not fall in. The mountain is about thirty inches high at its highest point, so it wasn’t bright of me not to install more support before putting on the plaster cloth.
I painted about three-quarters of the non-rock area of the mountain today before running out of paint. My plan is to install better internal support, install five tunnel portals and two retaining walls (will require a good bit of time due to fitment issues), finish painting the mountain and its rocks, and then put some ground cover on it, clump foliage, and trees.
I have another question, this one about ballasting. I ballasted the tracks leading into the tunnels and will finish ballasting as the last step. This was my first time ballasting and I thought it was very difficult. My outside loop is on a Woodland Scenics incline, and it was half-way into the process when I thought to brush a little glue onto the sides of the cork roadbed to keep the ballast from falling down to the base of the layout. And when I applied the Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement using an accordion applicator, the ballast floated above the tie tops and stuck to those and to the rails. I used a track pin to scratch away some of the stuck ballast, but I hope you fellows know an easier way to get rid of ballast that’s stuck to the ties and rails.
A couple of tips for you. First of all, WS ballast will float if not properly pre-wetted. There is another very recent thread on the forums with a detailed discussion about this.
Secondly, I’m not sure you’re using acrylic paints. Strong odor is characteristic of solvent-based varieties. The fact that you refer to the paint as “Floquil” is another indicator that it’s solvent-based. The brand name for the acrylics in that line is “Pollyscale”. And now you know why I use acrylics exclusively. Also, something like a timber portal is never going to be just one color. RR Tie brown is a good base shade, but dry brush on some spots of lighter and darker colors, and finish the whole thing off with at thin wash of black to highlight the texture.
Finally, don’t kill yourself to have your son’s layout done by Christmas. When building a layout is a chore, it ceases to be fun. Relax and have fun. Then you and your son can have years of enjoyment out of the layout together. Otherwise, it will become your worst nightmare as your son begs you to work and you find excuses not to. Don’t ask how I know this.
I think you’re right about everything you said. I painted most of the non-rock areas of the mountain today and it already looks better.
The texture is cottage cheese, though, and now it’s pretty much dry. I’ll use more water next time.
Yeah, my son was begging me to work on the layout late this afternoon and I declined. I’m new to this and am at a point at which I’m realizing that this is a very time-consuming thing. I bet I’ve spent 300 or more hours on the layout so far. Installing seven Tortoise switches took me about thirty hours, though now that I have experience, I bet I could do it in four hours (and maybe the next time in two).
I wet the ballast with isopropyl alcohol prior to dripping the scenic cement, but I guess I didn’t use enough. I can see that I’m going to have spent more than a hundred bucks on scenic cement. Do you believe Scenic Express’s Matte Medium is on par with the Woodland Scenics product? I believe it’s less expensive.
I don’t see that you are too far off base. Does seem you may have put the Sculptamold on a bit heavy, but once it is dry it should be strong enough to hold. To this point I have only used foam insulation for my hills, but may use lattice, if I ever get my “train room” back. I will put your experience in the memory banks and remember to support the lattice well, prior to adding weight.
As for the rocks, I would do them first. I prefer washes that will impregnate the plaster so that if there should be a chip broken off later, it will not be nearly as visible as if paint is chipped off. Get them to the desired shades and then paint over the rest of the area with your earth color. I don’t worry about the earth areas chipping, as they will be covered with ground foam and other textures. Should they get chipped, a little glue and more ground cover will hide the chip.
Get your trains running well before you do a lot of scenery work. If they don’t run well your little one won’t be happy and it is a lot easier to fix things before all the scenic stuff gets in the way. Doubt he’ll notice that the scenery is not finished. My very first layout had little scenery, but I didn’t notice as long as the trains ran.
These are good words. The fun is in the journey, not the destination. When I was your sons age way back in the early 1960’s I would get a new engine or boxcar or building for Christmas or my birthday. I was thrilled to get these things. But the thing I cherished the most was working on the layout with my Dad. I was too young to do much so I just watched for the most part. I was a full participant when it came to running trains though.
Building the layout together is what he will remember. A shared sense of accomplishment makes for a good day. My Dad has been dead for 19 years now, but he is in the trainroom with me every day peering over my shoulder grinning ear to ear at the layout we now have. The feeling is the same as fifty years ago. Building it together meant more to me than having a finished layout handed to me.
I’ll comment on mixing Scupltamold and plaster rocks. They absorb coloring at different rates. If you want the rocks to appear different than the Sculptamold, be careful not to get Scupltamold on the face of them. Treat the Sculptamold as dirt or other fill and the plaster as rock when thinking about the scenery in front of you as you create it.
If you have already run everything together as it looks, no big deal. Just seal it all with paint, then go over it again.
I might use a wash. I don’t have any washes yet, but CTValleyRR suggested using a wash with the timber tunnel portal.
I bought four bottles of PollyScale paint last week to follow Dave Frary’s rock-painting technique from his DVD Easy Scenery from Start to Finish.
I had the track working well before I ballasted the tracks leading into the tunnels. If it runs as well as it did before ballasting, I’m in good shape. If not, now I have a mountain to work around.
You’re absolutely right. I’d forgotten this key point. I’ll get the stuck-on ballast off the tie tops and rails so we can run trains again, and I’ll do this first.
But before I can do that we’re heading up to Bryson City, North Carolina, to ride The Polar Express.
Thanks for the tip. I got Sculptamold on more than a handful of our rocks. It was tough to see what was Sculptamold and what was Hydrocal. If I had it to do over again, I’d tint either the Sculptamold or the Hydrocal so I’d know which was which.
I loved CTValleyRR’s advice about using a black wash on the portals. Maybe I can get some advice about how to paint the rocks given how I already have them painted. They need highlights, more grays, some green, and deeper shadows. I bought an airbrush (Paasche VL200), but I haven’t gone through any of the practice lessons with it yet.
Thanks again to forum member Brad (twcenterprises) for coming over and helping me get the cardboard mountain built.
Jaddie, I just ballasted under my tunnel. My second time at it and it came out nice. What I did was use the advice I found in some books. Jeff Wilson has a good one.
I used a plastic spoon to gently put down ballast between the ties and then made a small mound on the sides. I never pre-glued the shoulders. I used a 1/2" paintbrush to sweep the ballast between the ties and then I built up the shoulders. It’s VERY time consuming but I personally find it very relaxing.
Then I used a hair spray bottle filled with water and alcohol. This way it wets it and wets it well too. Next I used one of my wife’s old saline bottles filled with a thinned mixture of white glue (Scenics Cement) and water. Take the bottle and hol
I agree with the other guys. Paint it and put some scenic materials with trees on it and you may be quite pleased. There looks to be a lot of nooks and crannies for stuff to fill in. It may very well turn out to be cool.
I’m going to paint the rocks again (I’m not satisfied with how they look now), add rocks where there’s bare Sculptamold, paint those, and then start putting greenery on the mountain. I hope to get to the greenery on Wednesday. I don’t know what kind of greenery to use, though. I’d appreciate any suggestions you may have.
Are you referring to a basic pump sprayer? Is this better than using an accordion applicator? Is a mixture of water and alcohol better than alcohol alone?
I won’t be ballasting anymore until I approach the end of this project, which I hope to see within a couple of months.
A pump sprayer. I asked my wife to buy the cheapest hairspray possible and she bought this. But it’s water based and I was gonna use it for trees. So I wanted a real adhesive type spray so she bought me a can of the spray glue type. So I emptied the bottle, rinsed it out and used it to make I think a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water.
I have a lot of pix posted here in the forum of how I created the mountain that may help and one of the photos shows the bottle and the DAP patching plaster I used to hide the seams of the plaster cloth.
