My only point was that the dual headlamp was used for freight, so at least you could argue that the dual headlamp for freight was prototypical.
That said, I agree that Athearn got “lazy” by not producing a single headlamp specifically for freight.
One question in this regard. In the Highliner EMD F Unit Body Shell Kit, does it include a detail part to convert the dual headlamp to a single headlamp? Probably not.
Rich
The Clear parts in the Highliners kits (& seperately) include most light types, including the Single bulb/Reflector version. I believe they are sized for both ports. The Nose light is accurately larger than the Door light. They are cast in Clear & I used Alclad on a set I got to place in another model, very nice dress-up parts, even if you don’t make an entire shell.
What started this mess was me collecting F7 bodies. I bought a whole bunch of different bodies over time. The idea was to practice painting them and then using them. Most only cost me a buck or two. Well I have a couple of Proto 1000 F3’s that I bought for around $20 and I really like them. So while they were running I looked into the pile of F’s and pulled out a shell that matched closely. It has 2 head lights and a steam generator on it. It’s sort of in cigar band paint. Well I got doing research and found that no such animal actually existed. So I haven’t decided what to do with it exactly. It was attached to a Bachmann dummy chassis but looks like it could be either Bachmann or Athearn. Either way it’s not prototypical with out a lot of work. I really like the look of the Santa Fe freight diesels from this era. The nice thing is that they weren’t too far from where I live. Most came around Cleburne and Ft. Worth. They would fit with a lot of different things I have. Since my bottom layout is really small and this is where they would call home, I don’t need a lot of them.
Here is a picture of the shell.
Here is a MKT project that I have been doing with the same kinds of things.
This is the real one!
and here is a sample of the scenery on the layout.
Hope this helps.
RMax
Rich,
I guess the lesson learned is to really research the real trains you are interested in first before trusting and buying anything. Seems you can’t trust the manufactures to be faithful to the prototype. To a point I can’t blame them. If you don’t know exactly what you are doing, ie road numbers and details you could find out later something that might make you unhappy. It all depends on what you want out of the hobby. I like history but I am not a rivet counter. I like nice details and expect the model to be accurate. The Athearn RTR line is nice but seems it was created with flaws and is considered close or good enough. If good enough is ok then ok but it bugs me. It’s buying a toy train. Buying the Genesis F is a whole different deal. And for some of us that are not complete experts when we do learn more are we going to be that much more disappointed. This is not a black and white hobby. It has more gray areas than I ever imagined.
RMax
RMax said
“It seems you can’t trust the manufacturers to be faithful to the prototype?”
As a former employee of Bowser Manufacturing, I must respectfully disagree with this statement. The outright lack of understanding reflected in some of these comments is huge.
You need to understand there were literally thousands of F units built; they were one of the diesels that vanquished steam, and of those thousands of F units, Santa Fe had the largest fleet. Books have been written that focus heavily on modeling just the Santa Fe F units. Like many railroads, the Santa Fe units had countless variations and upgrades over their lifetime as money-earning machines. As others have stated above, you have to look at a specific unit in a specific year or few years to get any of the Santa Fe F Unit models “correct”. Especially on Santa Fe, F-3’s were upgraded so that externally they look like F-7’s, and roof fans of various sizes could appear on any Santa Fe F unit. There’s so much more to modeling Santa Fe F units than just the single vs. double headlight issue.
If a manufacturer is going to sell an F unit–ANY F unit–at a reasonable price point that most folks could afford, just which ONE particular version should they do? Tooling costs money–why should Athearn do separate low priced models in Santa Fe–I bet fans of every other railroad might want their road’s F unit instead of a Santa Fe version. Research time and tooling costs money–money that isn’t there for low priced models. When they already own paid for tooling that brings in profit, why should they upgrade it?–instead Athearn chose to offer, for those who demanded it, an entirely separate line of locomotives that is largely correct for each railroad offered.
Athearn is being incredibly acc
This is my quote.
My quote
I guess the lesson learned is to really research the real trains you are interested in first before trusting and buying anything. Seems you can’t trust the manufactures to be faithful to the prototype. To a point I can’t blame them. If you don’t know exactly what you are doing, ie road numbers and details you could find out later something that might make you unhappy.
You say that you can not trust the manufacturers and people go bonkers. There is no way manufacturers can be 100% accurate on this grade or really any grade of product. This is why I say I can’t blame them to a point. Modelers need to do research(what I was doing) to make sure what they do buy will make them happy. If you are not 100% sure what you are doing pick a road, road number and research the unit. You can not trust that the manufacturers unit will be 100% correct. It is expensive to make these things. There are cases of blatant in accurate models and I am sure that it may be due to economics. NOT to trick or fool the public. There are so many F7’s there is no way to expect the one you want to come out of the box perfect. BUT a little closer would be nice and that is what the Genesis unit is.
RMax
People on these and other forums forget that they are all toys.
The Athearn economy line F Unit shell is a legacy from well before I was born (1968). It was a different era then, and the toy train manufacturers weren’t concerned with accuracy like today.
If you think about it, the profits from those economy models help to fund the Genesis models.
I am not an Athearn lover per se, have experienced QA/QC issues with their products in the past due to the Chinese assembly and occasional corner cutting by the Chinese during assembly where defective models slip through into the U.S., but the design of the Athearn models themselves is truly exceptional, and as a practicing civil engineer, I have to respect what they have achieved with the body shells because they have done such a great job!
Research time to get all the variations right-or even just very close–is expensive–and generally speaking, they have done well. There is a cost to all that.
It’s even worse with steam as each road’s steam looked different from almost all others (with limited exceptions like some 2-8-4’s and USRA steam). In steam, manufacturers can and do pick one generally representative prototype, make it, and paint it for all the roads that had “similar” power (example: the recently introduced Bachmann 2-6-0 is modeled from a GB&W engine for which drawings were published). Otherwise they’d go broke attempting to get it right. Plus in HO there comes the question of which one drive axle on a steam engine do you want in the right place? because c
One of the best sources for anyone modeling Santa Fe F Units is The Santa Fe Diesel, Volume I, by Dr. Cinthia Priest. Good luck finding it, as it is out of print and desirable.
Some folks are asking $150 per copy or more for that book. I have a friend who has one copy (it once was mine), and might possibly be persuaded to part with it if someone wants to go there…
John
John I agree,
The one thing I would like to see is Athearn update the F7. At least a little bit. The model is over 50 years old and will stay the same way for another 50 unless they do. They have upgraded somewhat in the RTR line but there are a few things that need to happen. The first is they need to at least make it DCC ready. The second is come out with a couple different model variations. This model has been the bread and butter of model railroading as far as diesels for generations. My guess is that more F units have been sold by Athearn than any other unit. Modelers are demanding more and you really can not blame them. The Genesis line for some is the answer but the cost is not in range for others. If Athearn and others(which is now happening) would update some of their older more popular products it would be fantastic. When the negatives of a product out weight the positives people end up buying something else. Not saying that the Athearn product is bad because it is not but when you take into account no DCC, inaccurate etc etc. it gives any competition some room. Even if that competition is another Athearn model. If I can buy an F with DCC ready and close to the same look for the money the DCC versions at least got one sell. The Genesis line will still sell fine. I think there will not be a problem selling products of that quality if price and demand stay inline. As long as the manufacturers stay the same and do not update that’s the problem. The buyer today is not the same as they were in 1968.
RMax
RMax–
The Athearn F-7 predates 1968…by how much, I have no idea.
I predict that we will not see an upgraded economy series F unit from Athearn within the next 5 years.
Why?
A. Bachmann just announced one, so Athearn will not attempt to go head to head with Bachmann (otherwise both will lose in that game).
B. Walthers/Proto 1000 already offers some really fine economy series F-3 units that are better than the current Athearn F-7.
Granted, the Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 F units are available in less roadnames and paint variations than Athearn offers–and there are a few people who don’t care for the P2K cab front windows, as for some they don’t appear to look as nice as Athearn’s Genesis series windows. Overall, the P2K F unit is generally speaking (based on the examples I’ve seen and owned) better assembled than the Athearn Genesis F unit, with better paint than what Athearn has offered (except some prefer the brighter red warbonnet on the Athearn units).
I really love the one P2K plated, red warbonnet Santa Fe F-7 that I currently own. I also like the one Genesis Yellowbonnet #341 F-7. I’ll probably buy more of the Walthers/P2K red warbonnet units as soon as I have the funds. (The plated yellowbonnet Genesis F-7’s are largely gone, though my favorite store has 2 sets of them remaining, each with minor issues that make them unacceptable to me).
To each his own.
John
P.S. I did just put a Genesis WP FP-7A with sound on layaway because my son wanted it, along with a BLI Paragon 2-8-2. Walthers does not offer the WP FP-7A, and the fit and finish on both the Genesis ones that my local store has in stock was notably better than on the regular Genesis Santa Fe F-7’s I’ve seen lately.
With Genesis, one must shop carefully. One run may be truly outstanding, and the next run may have annoying minor issues that really detract from the finished model
John,
I did see that Bachmann was coming out with the new F7’s. I own 3 of the Proto 1000 F3’s and 10 Proto 2000 E’s. I really like the Proto series. I haven’t kept with them as much lately. If I had my way either one Bachmann or Proto would be fine as long as they are a bit nicer than the Athearn. I have a Bachmann GP38 that I like really well. Right now I am looking for DCC ease of installation.
If the competition passes the Athearn units in quality all the way around I really wonder what that will do to sells. The F like you say has been a part of the hobby for well over 40 years. If you can buy a better piece that’s more accurate and modern inside Athearn will have to do something.
I did see something about the WP’s!
RMax
It’s only conjecture on my part. Time could prove me wrong.
I would never have believed that Athearn would take the rather dated Roundhouse Series (formerly Model Diecasting) steam engines and retool some of them into some very nice locomotives for the money, that seem to compare very favorably with Bachmann’s latest offerings.
Using the words Athearn and steam power in the same sentence, excepting a few Genesis steamers, generally seems like a contradiction. However, I’ve owned a couple of the recent Bachmann 2-6-0’s with sound, and I found that the Athearn Roundhouse 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 actually run better (though they are DCC ready and the recent runs did not have factory sound installed). The Athearn engines are simply quieter and smoother. Time will tell which is a better, more durable product on the layout. With the green glass “jewels” in the classification lights, the Athearns do seem to stand out even though perhaps based on no one specific prototype. Though I loved the Bachmann 2-6-0’s when I got them, I sold them after acquiring some Athearn steamers because I preferred the Athearns.
If it was me, I’d focus my resources on products the other guys aren’t already making–but then everybody also makes GP-7’s and -9’s, too.
John