Time is just one of many factors most people weigh when choosing a mode of transportation. Cost, convenience (frequency), comfort, safety, dependability, status, etc. are some of the other factors.
The auto is frequently more cost effective, especially if one needs wheels at his or her destination, and more than one person is traveling; convenient, comfortable, and perhaps cool than any mode of public transport. In Texas, at least, these are the reasons that most people choose to drive.
I think for the great majority of people, sitting in a train while cars are whizzing by on a parallel highway is a disincentive to repeat the experience.
Don’t get me wrong, the speed difference can’t be too much for a daytime service. But once you start getting close to automobile trip times a lot of non linear ridership gains occur. You don’t have to be faster on a total time basis. Combine that with an understanding of volume building techniques and you have a pretty cheap option.
It is much closer to 210 miles for the Hoosier State.
Wrong. According to Amtrak, it is 196 miles from Indy to CHI = 38.6 mph, also pretty pathetic.
No, I am not wrong. 196 is closer to 210 than 180.
And I still question the miles that Amtrak is using. It is 179 rail miles from Indy to Munster In. It is another 6.5 miles from Munster to Thorton Jct. It is another 11 and a half miles from Thorton Jct to the BRC at 80th st. That is 197 miles, and you are still in south Chicago. I do not know the rail mileage from 80th st to CUS, however even if it is a straight shot north to CUS, you are talking another 10 miles(8 city blocks per mile).
As for information, top speed from Munster to Crawfordsville is 60mph. I am not sure on Crawfordsville to Indy, however most of the line is dark. That means the fastest it could be for passenger is 59mph.
OK, even though the number you cited is 14 miles over the actual (in most guessing contests, if your guess goes over the actual, you are busted, just like blackjack) it is closer by 2 miles. And I believe Amtrak’s published numbers are accurate, your comments notwithstanding.
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You can believe what you like, however your information is not correct.
CSX,Crawfordsville Subdivision, Indianapolis to Ames, In
CSX, Monon Subdivision, Ames to Munster In,
CSX, Elsdon Sub, Munster to Thorton Jct.
The rest is correct.
Just as discloser, I have spent quite a bit of time dispatching the Monon sub, I am learning the Elsdon real fast, and have argued a whole lot with the dispatchers on the Crawfordsville and dispatcher 48 on the UP. I know my mileposts, but whatever, Amtrak can’t even get the subdivisions correct, or even the railroads that own them, I am sure they are spot on with the miles of operation.[:-^]
I have wondered why Amtrak says that the Cardinal and the Hoosier State use CSX to Dyer and NS (where did they get that?) into Chicago, omitting CN and UP.
Amtrak also errs in stating the distance that the Cardinal travels on the Buckingham Branch; westbound, it does not enter this road until it reaches Orange, using the NS from AF Tower (just south of Alexandria) to Orange.
The error in stating what roads are used in entering Chicago may be combined with the statement in the description of the routes of the Silver Service that Union officers dug the mine under Petersburg and then used dynamite to blast the Crater open. An officer ordered that non-commissioned men, mostly those with mining experience, dig the mine, and dynamite had not yet been invented.
The source I used, as opposed to what the other poster says, gives the routing as CN and UP.
I was quoting the Amtrak public timetable. Perhaps Amtrak does not really know, and so says one thing in one publication, and another in another publication?
Even then, it omits one road.
And the source that you used is outdated and wrong. CSX took ownership of the Elsdon sub from the CN in late May.
http://www.thereporteronline.net/newsx/community/63176-
http://il-evergreenpark.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/View/152
If the source is used is wrong on a simple thing such as line ownership, do you really trust the mileage? Also, please show me where I have said that the route from Thorton Jct to 80th St is anything but a UP/CSX joint owned property.
UM…If Amtrak has to do equipment moves to Beech Grove almost every day why does this train need a subsidy?
Funny. If you look at the string of posts on this one topic it is easy to see why ideas get snuffed out. So many different ideas on how to solve the same problem and none wants to modify their thinking TrainmanBarrett
But, what if we could give them the space of their entire house at canal barge speeds?
“Saving” the Hoosier State sounds noble, but what are we saving it for? It’s not very useful as transportation.
Beech Grove is a decent facility, but it’s in the wrong spot. It needs to be in Chicago. Might be cheaper in the long run to move Beech Grove’s work to Chicago - you wouldn’t need a very large facility - something along the size of major engine terminal on a Class 1 should do it. Hanging on to car repair expertise would be the trick…
That is exactly the question Indiana should be asking. What does NARP say about this? They are doing Amtrak’s bidding. Trying to get money for Amtrak to keep the train going - straight up lined up behind Amtrak. Hey, NARP, how about holding Amtrak’s feet to the fire and staking out a position between Amtrak and the state. You might want to mention to the state that Amtrak needs this train to ferry equipment.
This is the question that I have asked myself. What is so critical about Beech Grove? Move it to Chicago as per your suggestion.
Hanging on to the car repair expertise may not be that difficult. Offer to move the employees, with generous allowances, including incentives to find and buy a new house, and adjust their wages to reflect the higher cost of living in the Chicago area.
We moved employees all the time. I was an employee. Give them the right incentives, and most people will move. For those who won’t move, give them a decent severance package. No one is irreplaceable.
If the train is to be saved, radical surgery is needed. The overall speed is so low, it makes me wonder who would ride it. Cutting out a stop like Rensselaer (only 2.5 boardings/alightings) might cut a little time. Perhaps there are others. However, if the track is so bad it allows for only 30 -40 mph running in many places, one wonders how many freights use the line. Perhaps much of the route could be purchased cheaply. This may be the case on other lines as well.
As pointed out already, track speed for passenger trains is 60mph for most of the run.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/54981535/CSX-Chicago-Division-ETT-NO-2-4-1-2008
40mph over all the diamonds, 20 mph in Lafayette due to it being rule 193 yard limits, 15mph around the curve in Monon…60mph most of the run.
