Hi! When I was working with “HO”, I knew that the scale was 1:87. Now that I am working with “O” and “O27”, I am wondering what would the respective scales be?
I have Lionelville gorgi at 1:50 and have seen ads for people showing 1:50 for “O27” and 1:43 for “O”. My scale conversion chart shows “O” scale at 1:48. Because of my limited space, I have been concentrating on “O27” rolling stock.
I guess what I am really asking is: Is there a noticeable difference between 1:50 and 1:43?
Thank you.
O scale in this country is 1:48, it is 1:43.5 in England (7mm to the foot). The track gauge of 1.25: is too wide, but not that noticable IMHO. Lionel O is 1:48. Lionel 027 is smaller but is not reduced equally in all 3 dimensions. It is close to 1:55, a size made by Industrial Rail. Also, some of the large articulated locomotives in 3 rail are undersized - some are as small as 1:64 which is really S scale but they run on O 3 rail track.
I don’t think you’ll notice the difference between 1:43 and 1:50 unless you put them next to each other.
Enjoy
Paul
It’s the “people figures” that drive me nuts. They are listed as “O”, but every brand seems to make a different size…MTH being the smallest, going on up to Preiser being the largest, with the rest somewhere in-between. Joe
I have a mixture of O-27 and O (Standard O). I believe Lionel calls their true 1:48 scale dimensioned items “Standard O”. My opinion is that some of the prototypical smaller cars in Standard O look OK next to O-27 gauge, such as hoppers, but if you compare two like cars, say box cars, in “O” (i.e., Lionel O-27) and “Standard O” the difference is pretty noticeable side by side. Also, the proportions of a Standard O engine pulling O-27 cars can look a little “off” at times, as can Standard O cabooses with O-27 cars.
I usually will keep them segregated and run O-27 with O-27 and Standard O with Standard O. I have not been buying nearly as much Standard O as of late, focusing more on the O-27 pieces.
Like Luther, I have some of both sizes–traditional/O27 and scale (1:48), but tend to prefer the smaller items because I have a small layout and a small amount of space available. It does become a bit difficult at times to select proper-size figures and vehicles for O gauge because of the variations in “scales,” but I’ve found that anything around 1:50 works well enough for my O27 trains.
Personally, (as a rookie I say) I think there is a very noticeable difference, particularly in certain stock. This is probably the one thing I wish I had understood more about early on. With limited space I much prefer the O27 and will focus on that in the future. I’m running mixed and it looks Ok and I’ll probably leave it that way, but had I known more I would have initially purchased differently.
I’d just like to say that I found in the Diecast cars, that they aren’t always the scale they say they are ! Also, I’ve found that 1/43rd. scale cars, I think look the best & go real well with some of the buildings, like the K-line diner & MTH mcDonalds.
Thanks,
Pau/Joe/Luther/Allan/Aydaspop/John et al. MANY THANKS.
Speaking of O scale and O gauge…what is OO gauge? Is this just “old” O-31?
This link may help. be sure & scroll down . I think Lionel made it in the late 30s.
http://www.thortrains.net/scale1.htm
As long as you don’t mix O27 with scale in the same consist, you can have both on your layout and they can both coexist without detracting from each other (especially if they are in motion). I know many people including myself that gets away with doing this. If you must mix O27 and scale, try to use flatcars or gondola to break up the consist…You can also run your O27 on upper levels and toward the back of the layout to give a slight sense of forced perspective. This illusion totally negates the size differences and makes your layout look and feel more impressive!
My name gives away my leanings, but out of the necessity of having a small layout.
And since the train companies are putting all their investment capital into scale stuff, I have found if I want some “modern” looking smaller trains, I have to paint and build them myself. I’ve built some 027 TTUX cars, Coil Cars and smaller locos. One thing I find is you have to thorow away the scale ruler and go by what “feels right.” It’s kinda like water color painting… you don’t really paint the sky like you can with oils, you instead give an impression of it.
That’s not to say you don’t do some measuring and keep some kind of “scale” concept in mind, but you just have to bend it a bit more. For example, I shorten the height of the shells of all my MP-15 K-Line switchers. It’s a pretty close to scale proportioned loco to begin with, but the height of the cab towers above most the kinds of cars I run. Shortening the shell height makes the loco look better with the other cars and actually makes it “appear” to be bigger. The best way to see it is to compare each version next to eachother. Same goes fro the Lionel GP-9’s… they look so much better on a small layout with the shortened height on the shell. I made my own RS-3 starting with a K-Line MP-15 chassis… I like my so much more I’ll never buy the Lionel one again. Again, it just looks so much better on a small layout, regardless of precision scale.
Take a good look at some of the older MARX tin lithographed trains. Hardly prototypical scale dimensions, and yet they truly have a great look to them. Even with the simple lithography details, there’s no mistaking them - they’re trains!!
As far as die-cast vehicles, I lean towards slightly smaller ones than the normal 1:43 ones. Some of the Ertl tractors look just right on a smaller layout. Plasticville buildings are not full scale, but straddle the line between 0 and S, yet they look fine on most layouts. Some of the now defunct K-Lineville buildings, like the Police Stati
Pmilazzo/Brianel027:
Really great food for thought! Many thanks.
OO gauge/scale is 1:76 (4mm). Originally made in England. Because the English locomotives are smaller than ours, motors wouldn’t fit in HO models but it used HO gauge track. It’s still made in England for English model trains. In this country, the gauge was corrected and several manufacturers made locomotives and cars for it, one of which was Lionel.
Here’s a link to the SIG for it. http://www.getnet.com/~dickg/nmra/sigs/AmericanOO/AmericanOO.html
Enjoy
Paul
Some of the traditional items are scale, but they are scaled to pre-war (WW-2) prototypes. When these are painted in modern schemes and have modern reporting marks that have nothing to do with their originl size they become “traditional”. If it looks good (to you) and it runs well on your track/layout, I wouldn’t worry over it.
Chuck: What, me worry? Too “old” to worry! Thanks.
Chuck makes a good point. Although many of the postwar train products are not to full-scale proportions (like the 6464 box cars), some are very, very close (like the NW2 switcher). Real trains during the postwar era of Lionel were also smaller too. The Crown Line (now owned by Weaver) Box Cars and Reefers are modeled after these smaller original prototypes: Although they are full scale dimensions, the models look good with traditionally sized trains because the trains they are modeled after were smaller.
Reading about the history of Conrail provides some interesting observations. When Conrail was formed, the preexisting lines were in a state of disarray, physically and financially. Conrail quickly started ditching the previous owners smaller rail cars because more profit could be made from one larger train car than two smaller ones. Conrail for example, quickly scrapped two-bay hoppers in favor of larger 3 and 4 bay hoppers. Same goes for the traditional 40-foot boxcar. The Lehigh Valley, Reading, Erie Lackawanna and Penn Central had large numbers of larger boxcars and these were repainted and kept in service. While the Jersey Central had mostly older smaller 40 foot box cars and these were quickly retired.
So a hint for a smaller train layout: you have to flub your idea of scale a little bit. For example, the K-Line 764-series modern steel box car is a scale proportioned current standard box car, but when placed on a smaller layout, I think of it as a modern hi-cube box car, since the K-Line model is larger than your typical 6464-series box car. The Williams boxcars are also a little larger than the 6464 style. As are the older pre-scale MTH Railking boxcars. So
Youve said a mouthfull, and I agree. I checked the tab and it says “Toy” trains, not “Model Railroader”. Lets layout some track and see who can pull the most rollingstock through the hills! Too much cash is wasted on lawyers and whatnot and its taking away from people that just want to have some fun with an nice train set.[soapbox]
You guys are really great. Thanks so much for your replies.
Most of the real trains going by my place have different size cars. Most noticeable is the height difference on boxcars.
That said, I don’t like the looks of extreme differences in my trains either. I’ve got some scale Weaver boxcars that don’t go well with traditional boxcars but I think the Weaver two bay covered hoppers mix in nicely. I like to use tank cars to seperate extreme height differences. I think it ‘flows’ smoother than the sudden drop to flat and then the sudden jump up. I don’t seem to notice the width difference, only the height.
I guess my point is that all you can do mix and match and see what you like. Then relegate the extremes to run by themselves.
Dale